Shock Valving

Vanapplebomb · Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:28 am Post subject: Shock Valving

First off, sorry about not posting this in the shocks sticky. It doesn't get much traffic and questions don't always get answered, so I decided to post it here.

I have done some searches, but have not found exactly what I am looking for. It always turns up saying I should get the KYB's or other popular shocks, but I would like to know what valving is good for a nearly shock front suspension. There are a lot more shocks out there than just KYB and Bilstein, so I was curious to see what else I could find. I saw on Woodsbuggy.com that several people run cheep gabriel shocks up front with good luck...thats just one example.

Anyways, if any of you can suggest a good valving, let me know.

Thanks!
_________________
Berrien 295

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021

shred625 · Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:15 pm Post subject:

Every manufacturer does the shock valving different so you are really asking a loaded question.
_________________
“It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.”
~ Jack Handey

Vanapplebomb · Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:38 pm Post subject:

Hm...so what your saying is that the numbers are not universal? For example, a Bilstein with 265/70 valving could have damping characteristics completely different than a KYB with a 265/70 valving?
_________________
Berrien 295

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021

shred625 · Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:49 am Post subject:

Pretty much
_________________
“It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.”
~ Jack Handey

jsturtlebuggy · Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:18 am Post subject:

Having the same valving and using different weights of shock oil will make shock act differently.
Using different gas pressure will also affect how the shock works.
_________________
Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Racing
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960
Manx Across America, coming in October 2013

Vanapplebomb · Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:05 am Post subject:

Hu, You can always learn something new here.

I have seen F150 shocks used for 8 inch towers. Would those light duty pickup truck shocks seam about right?
_________________
Berrien 295

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021

jsturtlebuggy · Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:20 pm Post subject:

For a light weight buggy that has very little weight on the front end and that you are not running to hard, (like contenuious whoops) a stock 1968 and later Bus type II oil filled rear shock would work with 8in shock towers.
Gas filled shock are great but even the KYB GR-2 are stiffer than a stock oil filled shock.
Depending on how you use the vehicle will kind of decide on what you need to use.

Realize that shocks for American made cars are most likely to have stiffer valving with supension that it used stock on them.
VW's are kind of unique with the trailing arm supension.

Using a rebuildable shocks such a FOX, FOA, and others you can dial in the valving and use different weights of oil and different nitrogen pressure for tuning your supension.
What ever shock you decide to use realize that they are a compromise.
Using bypass shocks that you can adjust for different conditions is the ultimate for now, but comes with a large price tag.
_________________
Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Racing
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960
Manx Across America, coming in October 2013

Vanapplebomb · Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:02 pm Post subject:

Yup, it will be light in the front, but I also plan to drive it hard. It probably won't see to much blacktop. For that reason I would like a gas charged shock to keep the aeration down to a minimum. I don't want to pay anymore than what the KYBs go for.
_________________
Berrien 295

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021

shred625 · Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:08 pm Post subject:

Thanks I was hoping I wasn't going to have to go there.

Vanapplebomb · Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:59 pm Post subject:

I found this interesting...mostly because it's different. I looked up those gabriel 81164 shocks were used on Chevrolet Blazers, suburbans, and GMC Jimmies from the 1970's through the early 90's.

http://www.woodsbuggy.com/index.php?option=com_jfu...mp;t=11709
_________________
Berrien 295

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021

shred625 · Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:24 am Post subject:

What do you have for a car and what are you using it for? I suspect you are putting way to much thought into this.
_________________
“It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.”
~ Jack Handey

dirtkeeper · Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:49 pm Post subject:

Vanapplebomb · Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:12 pm Post subject:

I will mostly use it for trail riding. Michigans upper peninsula is filled with great mining and logging trails...mostly un-groomed broken rock with lot of hills. it can be pretty intense. In west michigan its mostly gravel roads...easy driving. West michigan is pretty smooth but the Upper peninsula will definitely be a work out.

PhillipM · Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:02 am Post subject:

Vanapplebomb · Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:17 pm Post subject:

PhillipM · Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:33 pm Post subject:

Vanapplebomb · Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:34 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the tip Phillip!

Anyone have opinions on gas charged bus shocks instead of plain oil shocks?
_________________
Berrien 295

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021

jsturtlebuggy · Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:07 pm Post subject:

Van,
Have you ever weigh the front of the vehicle?
I doubt if you have even 250lbs on front supension.
You can use a couple of bathroom scales for the front to weigh it.

The problem with using American car shock is they are just to stiff of valving for a light weight buggy. Using them will rattle your teeth out.
Gets worse as you get older and hurt more.

I really don't think you are ever going to make a stock oil shock fade or boil with what you are planning on doing.
You know that in the early days of buggies that they would take the stock oil out and use light weight oil and even use Lighter Fluid in the shocks to make them work. The stock shocks are made for a heavier Bug than a lightweight buggy. This is what Bruce Meyers and Ted Mangels did when he set the first Baja record run in 1967 in the first Meyers Manx, Old Red.

The hype of you need a gas filled shock for a play car has been over done.

One my one buggies all it had for years was stock worn shocks and it road great. It now has the cheapest EMPI oil filled shocks on it and working with out any problems. No oil leaks. They were the cheapest I could find since the price of CoFap shocks became more than I wanted to spend.
_________________
Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Racing
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960
Manx Across America, coming in October 2013

SamT · Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:48 am Post subject:

As much thought as you are putting into this you need to just buy so.me fox shocks so you can tune them. A real shock has endless tuning. I even change mine day to day at the dunes . Sand gets rougher towards the end of the weekend, or if it rains, ect.

I run fox 2.0 air shocks

In less than 30 sec I can change ride height and some stiffness with nitrogen.
in 2 min/ shock I can add 'gain" add oil so the suspension rate increases more.
Takes about 10 min a shock to remove some oil to decrease the gain.
takes about 10min a shock to revalve a shock (once dialed in rarely would it be worth it to revalve)

Nitrogen is cheap , you don't use much oil, and valves are cheap

Initial cost of shocks and nitrogen setup are the expensive part.

Vanapplebomb · Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:53 pm Post subject:

>Help >Donate >Buy Shirts >Register >Log in	See all Samba banner ads \| Advertise on TheSamba.com

	Forum Index -> HBB Off-Road	All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time Goto page 1, 2 Next
Page 1 of 2