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cardinal0128 Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2007 Posts: 188 Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:42 pm Post subject: Trans input shaft damaged in removal? |
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Wanted to pose this one to the board, I just dropped my engine from my 78 Bay, to get to the fuel tank. I was trying to follow Ratwells' instructions for engine removal but I screwed up the balancing and ended up putting stress on the trans input shaft during removal. I obviously couldn't see all of the details, but I think the shaft was hung up on the pressure plate during removal for a short time. I'm not sure how much but I'm just worried about it screwing up the input shaft seal and I'm wondering if I should just replace it while I still have the engine out? There aren't any signs of current leakage from either the trans side or the engine side in the bellhousing.
Any input would be appreciated. _________________ 1978 Westy, stock
1967 Beetle (sold)
1993 Ford F-150 v8 5 sp
1965 Jeep CJ-5
2002 Jetta TDI |
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busmania Samba Member
Joined: October 13, 2006 Posts: 1934 Location: Here
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Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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Probably fine but with the seal being so cheap, just replace it and be done with it. Peace of mind! |
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VDubTech Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2002 Posts: 9142 Location: Syracuse, NY
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Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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....and one more of a million reasons to remove the engine and transmission as a unit, and reinstall the same way. _________________ First Trip in the RustyBus:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=279077&highlight=
borninabus wrote: |
a measurement of your rod would be extremely useful. |
notchboy wrote: |
my dad wasnt a belittling cock when he tought me how to wrench on cars. |
EverettB wrote: |
One photo = good for reference.
10 photos = douchebaggery |
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cardinal0128 Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2007 Posts: 188 Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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OK. Are there any special tools required? I read in some other posts just find a piece of pipe that is the right size to drive it back in. I'm also planning on replacing the throwout bearing with a German Sachs unit while I'm in there.
I showed the driven plate to my mechanic and he thought that it looked good enough to leave alone vs. pulling the flywheel and having in resurfaced, etc. _________________ 1978 Westy, stock
1967 Beetle (sold)
1993 Ford F-150 v8 5 sp
1965 Jeep CJ-5
2002 Jetta TDI |
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merlinj79 Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2008 Posts: 379 Location: SOCAL
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Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah as long as you're in there service the clutch. Replace seal and T/O bearing and anything else that's worn. _________________ Rick
"Pumpkin II"
Stock 2L FI '77 Westy
CA Smog Stuff |
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cardinal0128 Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2007 Posts: 188 Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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I'm thinking of leaving the clutch disk alone for now since I wasn't having any problems with it in practice. My mechanic says leave it alone, vs. take off the flywheel, have it serviced, and replacing a seal that isn't leaking. Thoughts?
I also don't have the tools to measure end play so I'm worried about upsetting the apple cart for a smooth running engine... _________________ 1978 Westy, stock
1967 Beetle (sold)
1993 Ford F-150 v8 5 sp
1965 Jeep CJ-5
2002 Jetta TDI |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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put it in 4th gear, have someone turn a wheel while someone else holds the other one. See if the shaft has a big wobble in it.
Take the trans out cause it is so much easier doing the engine and trans as a pair. Get the $70 HF atv jack for the engine and use your jack for the trans. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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cardinal0128 Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2007 Posts: 188 Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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Steve, what do you mean with the 4th gear test?
Also, I have an ATV jack and my engine is currently out. Trans is still in the vehicle but thinking of dropping the trans now and doing the shift rod bearings. My shifting isn't terrible but it's not super crisp either. _________________ 1978 Westy, stock
1967 Beetle (sold)
1993 Ford F-150 v8 5 sp
1965 Jeep CJ-5
2002 Jetta TDI |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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it takes 3 people unless you block one wheel. 2 to turn while you watch the input shaft as it turns. it will either be true or be bent. hold it in your fingers or let it sit inside a box or open end wrench and see if it wobbles. It will sag because it is unsupported however you have to support it to know how true it is. You might want to replace the pilot bearing while the engine is out. Also I would at least clean up the flywheel and replace the clutch disc if it is worn. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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cardinal0128 Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2007 Posts: 188 Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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Ah, as a test for the input shaft. I will do that. I don't think I put enough force on it to bend the shaft, but maybe enough to damage the oil seal.
Thoughts on replacing the clutch disk and pressure plate without having the flywheel resurfaced? _________________ 1978 Westy, stock
1967 Beetle (sold)
1993 Ford F-150 v8 5 sp
1965 Jeep CJ-5
2002 Jetta TDI |
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Desertbusman Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2005 Posts: 14655 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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If you've never replaced the input shaft seal you would want to do it now regardless. If the fingers on the pressure plate wern't damaged there is a very slim chance the shaft is. Be sure and check the end play now. A dial indicator and the fixture is nice but not at all needed. It can be done accurately using a feeler gauge and a bit of creativity. Tom Wilson might discuss how to do it.
Replacing a clutch disc might be an option. Maybe unnecessary.
I always go over the flywheel surface. What works fantastic is a small palm held orbital sander and course paper. Do it to the pressure plate surface also.
Don't forget to lube the pilot bearing. _________________ 71 Superbug
71 Westy |
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cardinal0128 Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2007 Posts: 188 Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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Am I checking the end play on the input shaft or on the crankshaft?
Also, where can I get a good quality input shaft seal? _________________ 1978 Westy, stock
1967 Beetle (sold)
1993 Ford F-150 v8 5 sp
1965 Jeep CJ-5
2002 Jetta TDI |
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Desertbusman Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2005 Posts: 14655 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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Crankshaft endplay.
I get the seals from a local VW trans builder. _________________ 71 Superbug
71 Westy |
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cardinal0128 Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2007 Posts: 188 Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:30 am Post subject: |
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Got the mainshaft seal in from Airhead Parts. The seal says Germany on it, so I think I'll give it a go with the replacement. _________________ 1978 Westy, stock
1967 Beetle (sold)
1993 Ford F-150 v8 5 sp
1965 Jeep CJ-5
2002 Jetta TDI |
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santychago Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2011 Posts: 31 Location: Lynwood Ca. 90262
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Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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Hey guys Iught be going through the same problem Here. As to the 4th gear test I want to try it. I know my main shaft seal is worn. Not sure about the actual input shaft. I can toggle it freely but not sure if its just cause the seal is bad. So ima jack the rear of the car, place it on 4th and have someone hold one tire while the other turns another back tire right? And if it wobbles up and down means its bad right? Now do I do this with the worn seal or after I replace it? Thnx in advance |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50352
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Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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santychago wrote: |
Hey guys Iught be going through the same problem Here. As to the 4th gear test I want to try it. I know my main shaft seal is worn. Not sure about the actual input shaft. I can toggle it freely but not sure if its just cause the seal is bad. So ima jack the rear of the car, place it on 4th and have someone hold one tire while the other turns another back tire right? And if it wobbles up and down means its bad right? Now do I do this with the worn seal or after I replace it? Thnx in advance |
Not sure what you are really saying, but it is normal for the input shaft to move around a bit when the engine and tranny are separated. That is 100% normal. |
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