Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Unleaded gas vs Leaded gas
Forum Index -> Beetle - Late Model/Super - 1968-up Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
mybug
Samba Member


Joined: October 19, 2008
Posts: 144
Location: Naples, Florida
mybug is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 6:30 am    Post subject: Unleaded gas vs Leaded gas Reply with quote

My question is I was told that I should use a leaded fuel additive in my 68 VW on fill ups. I was told that this helps in the wear and cooling of the # 3 cylinder. I was also told that when you use a leaded fuel additive once, there is no need to use it again because the engine adapts, (not sure of the technical reasons). Should I continue to add the additive on fill ups!? Rolling Eyes
_________________
"Id Rather Be Flying or Driving My Bus"!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Gary
Person of Interest


Joined: November 01, 2002
Posts: 17069
Location: 127.0.0.1
Gary is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BS, bs, Bee Ess. You can use unleaded and you'll be fine. Lead as added to gasoline to lubricate the top end of the engine "back in the day". People telling you that it keeps #3 cool are imbeciles.
_________________
West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Cusser
Samba Member


Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31268
Location: Hot Arizona
Cusser is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think you can buy a "real" leaded fuel additive, they are substitutes. Don't waste your money.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
raygreenwood
Samba Member


Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21474
Location: Oklahoma City
raygreenwood is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No you cannot buy a "lead" replacement...and there is no need. Tetraethyl lead was as mentioned.....a lubricant. Specifically the lead helped keep the red hot edges of the valves from sticking to the edge of the seat areas....in cars that had no seat inserts...ie...cast iron heads.

VW's have always had nickle alloy valve seats. They have never needed lead for lubrication purposes. That it helped raise octane was just an added bonus.

For octane only....In that respect...yes...you can buy octane boosters. They are mainly a blend of Xylene and toluene. And yes...they work when pure enough and blended properly. Those two chemicals are what are added in the blending process at the refineries to control octane.

Do you need them? No, not with a stock engine. Ray
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
mojo3622
Samba Member


Joined: May 22, 2008
Posts: 7
Location: idaho
mojo3622 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just use avation fuel 110 octane and has lead in it and is way cheaper than pump fuel.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
neil68
Samba Member


Joined: March 17, 2007
Posts: 3440
Location: Calgary, Canada
neil68 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:43 am    Post subject: unleaded Reply with quote

'67-up Beetle heads have no issues with unleaded. VWAG saw this fuel change coming and adjusted...
_________________
Neil.

Der Kleiner Rennwagens
68 Beetle 2332 cc, 204 WHP
12.5 seconds @ 107 mph
Dynojet Test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9B_H3eklAo
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
mukluk
Samba Member


Joined: October 18, 2012
Posts: 6985
Location: Clyde, TX
mukluk is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mojo3622 wrote:
I just use avation fuel 110 octane and has lead in it and is way cheaper than pump fuel.


Throwing the BS flag on this one... national average price for AVGas is $6+ per gallon.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
mojo3622
Samba Member


Joined: May 22, 2008
Posts: 7
Location: idaho
mojo3622 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well in idaho it's 3.85 a gallon
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
mukluk
Samba Member


Joined: October 18, 2012
Posts: 6985
Location: Clyde, TX
mukluk is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Average for Idaho is $5.87 per gallon. If you have a local airport selling for $3.85 then I suggest buying all you can get.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Multi69s
Samba Member


Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 5360
Location: Lefty, CA
Multi69s is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually lead in an engine is very hard on it. After combustion, the lead turns to lead salts which are actually corrosive to the engine. As Ray stated for a four stoke engine, the only benefit to lead is to provide a cushion for the valves. However, since VWs have always had hardened valve seats, it is really a non issue.

A small amount of lead does help out a little bit in two strokes though. In my 2T dirt bike I run 101LL AV gas. However, this engine was built from the factory to run on a least half race gas. When we go to the desert for a week at a time, it would drain my wallet to run race gas, so I buy the AV gas which is about $6 a gallon here in CA.

The other benefit of AV gas is that it has a much longer shelf life when storing. But it is not the fuel of choice for a stocker or one that you want to get the longest life out of.
_________________
69 road Bug 2110
73 Squareback - 2L, T4, Automatic W/ AC
Gone, but many fond memories 69 Baja Bug 2010 - 5 Rib Bus Transaxle
Gone but not forgotten 72 Baja Bug 2010
My builds
T4 into Squareback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=458944&highlight=
Auto Trans Rebuild http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=516066&highlight=
AC in Squareback https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
RichG
Samba Member


Joined: December 28, 2005
Posts: 78

RichG is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mojo3622 wrote:
Well in idaho it's 3.85 a gallon


If the Airport gets caught selling it for non-Aviation use it can get fined big time because the fuel is not taxed foe motor vehicle use. Please post the name of the airport that does this!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
djkeev
Samba Moderator


Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32432
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
djkeev is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RichG wrote:
mojo3622 wrote:
Well in idaho it's 3.85 a gallon


If the Airport gets caught selling it for non-Aviation use it can get fined big time because the fuel is not taxed foe motor vehicle use. Please post the name of the airport that does this!


Why would he? And cut off his fuel supply? He's probably NOT an idiot.

Too many stupid rules in this fine Nation! Good for him for getting away with it!
And then we have those running around whining "I'm gonna tell! I'm gonna tell! Shocked

Dave
_________________
Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos

Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert


Last edited by djkeev on Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Multi69s
Samba Member


Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 5360
Location: Lefty, CA
Multi69s is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah right. Now lets turn in all of our friends that are running some form of modified engines. Even though we may not have to smog them anymore, they are still supposed to be in original factory condition with all of the smog equipment still attached. Otherwise they are illegal also. Think of all of the items that we have installed that have a sticker saying "not intended for use on a public road, for off road use only".

I hope you were joking, or you may be visiting the wrong type of forum.
_________________
69 road Bug 2110
73 Squareback - 2L, T4, Automatic W/ AC
Gone, but many fond memories 69 Baja Bug 2010 - 5 Rib Bus Transaxle
Gone but not forgotten 72 Baja Bug 2010
My builds
T4 into Squareback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=458944&highlight=
Auto Trans Rebuild http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=516066&highlight=
AC in Squareback https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
camaroboi13
Samba Member


Joined: February 22, 2013
Posts: 902
Location: San Bernardino, CA
camaroboi13 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RichG wrote:
mojo3622 wrote:
Well in idaho it's 3.85 a gallon


If the Airport gets caught selling it for non-Aviation use it can get fined big time because the fuel is not taxed foe motor vehicle use. Please post the name of the airport that does this!


That's quite funny, I used to run AVgas in my PT Cruiser all the time and I picked it up from an airport regularly. There's an 1/8 mile oval track for go karts at my local airport and they let guys in all the time to use their fuel. When I used to take the PT Cruiser to the street legal drags I'd make a stop there and pick up some jet fuel.
_________________
69 bug 1600sp buckpack ceramic header w mondo muffler, riviera wheels, 185/65 front 205/70 rear, dual baby webers, big stereo in the works.
2001 Yukon Denali 6.0l AWD 24s TVs surround sound playstation 6 disc dvd etc etc.
2005 Nissan Maxima 3.5l stock mama's car

FFL GUN DEALER! PM ME FOR SOCAL TRANSFERS!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
Bad Hippie
Samba Member


Joined: March 11, 2013
Posts: 166

Bad Hippie is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Av gas is not taxed for use on public road.

That is why I never use to dump 5 gallons of the free sump fuel we had to drain from the tanks every day in any of my VW's. Wink

That's why most airports will not put fuel directly into an automobile. Instead they will be putting it into gas cans. From there its not their responsibility what it goes into. If your local airport isn't doing that, let them know, because it can be trouble for them. Help those who are helping you.

Don't ever go asking for Jet Fuel if "your planning to run your VW at the track." Jet fuel is basically highly refined Desel. I had a guy come by with a couple of cans one day looking for Jet Fuel (Jet A). When I asked him what he was planning on running it in he got a little dodgy. After a bit of prodding, and after I had started filling his cans, he finally told me his race buddies had told him how they ran Jet Fuel at the track. So he was going to get some to run in his Porsche as well. After a quick education in aircraft fuels he was very thankful that I had saved him a bunch of grief.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
James517
Samba Member


Joined: April 15, 2013
Posts: 1
Location: Near Seattle
James517 is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:14 am    Post subject: Re: Unleaded gas vs Leaded gas Reply with quote

I happen to use 100LL because my current Type 1-based engine (technically a German Limbach engine) is operated in my aircraft (www-rf5b-com).

Lead was added to aviation fuel to inhibit detonation. Even though it is officially called 100 Low Lead -- it actually has significantly more lead in it than the leaded auto fuels of earlier eras.

The lead is somewhat the bane of aviation engines, causing a variety of problems including stuck valves (from lead buildup on the valve guides) and burnt valves (from lead deposits on the seats causing valves to not close completely). Lead deposits on the top of pistons and in the rings can cause their own issues.

Adding some lead to your engine probably won't hurt it (as you'd be dosing it in lower quantities than aviation fuel), but it won't help it -- and won't do much for the environment, either.

I've had to cope with lead build up in a variety of ways and would prefer unleaded fuel. A variety of pilots I know mix unleaded (non-ethanol) auto fuel with their aviation fuel to try to reduce the effects of the lead.

If your compression is so high that you're experiencing detonation problems, leaded fuel would be a crude way to control those--but doable. If your engine is otherwise running well, just finding fuel that doesn't have ethanol is probably the best thing you can do.

James
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
sb001
Samba Member


Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 10399
Location: NW Arkansas
sb001 is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gary wrote:
BS, bs, Bee Ess.


This might be the funniest response I have evar seen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Beetle - Late Model/Super - 1968-up All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2023, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB
Links to eBay or other vendor sites may be affiliate links where the site receives compensation.