Author |
Message |
pigzsnout Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009 Posts: 95 Location: Biloxi, MS
|
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:51 pm Post subject: crank measurements HELP!! |
|
|
So I ran into a problem the other day when installing the cam gear, spacer, and distributor gear. After installing them, the keeper ring wouldnt go on. I had them pressed off, and reinstalled them since I guess I couldve screwed up the first time. After installing them the second time, I had the same problem. It appeared there needed about.040-.050 taken off the spacer for it all to fit.
These were all brand gears and the measured the exact same as a set of old junk german gears and spacer that were laying around. I know its not a problem with the gears. The problem is in the original crank machining. Does anyone have a crank laying around that can be measure? I need to know the full width of the main bearing journal from the end of the counterweight out to the edge of the journal. Also, the width of the journal where the gear rest from the main bearing journal to the inside edge of the keeper ring groove.
As I stated above, I ground down the spacer and got the keeper installed but I dont know if this is kosher since this will more than likely change how the distributor drive pinion will mesh with the gear. It seem that machining the top of the brass drive gear is a more suitable option. Am I correct or can I leave it as is? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
VWNut_69 Samba Member
Joined: November 29, 2012 Posts: 207 Location: Boise, ID
|
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Your gear to drive the cam may be on backwards and they have a bevel on the inside edge so they seat down onto the crank journal.
First of all, can you see the timing marks on the crank gear? they should face towards the crankshaft pulley.
I will post a pic in a few minutes of mine.
Mike |
|
Back to top |
|
|
pigzsnout Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009 Posts: 95 Location: Biloxi, MS
|
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yes, the gear is installed correctly. Timing marks are facing up when crank is standing on the flywheel. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
66brm Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2010 Posts: 3676 Location: Perth Western Australia
|
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I have an old CB crank in the shed I can measure up for you in a bit _________________ Aust. RHD 66 Type 1
Aust. RHD 57 Type 1 Oval
modok wrote: |
I am an expert at fitting things in holes, been doing it a long time |
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
VWNut_69 Samba Member
Joined: November 29, 2012 Posts: 207 Location: Boise, ID
|
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Hmmm, okay.
Bearing journal is 1.044" and from the circlip groove to bearing journal is 1.530".
Here is a pic of mine, you can see the gear is up against the bearing journal:
Is anything aftermarket? Gear? Spacer? , brass gear?
Mike |
|
Back to top |
|
|
pigzsnout Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009 Posts: 95 Location: Biloxi, MS
|
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Geara are from a new EMPI install kit. Again they measure the exact same thickness as german gears. Spacer is a German spacer since I dont see the need for a racer spacer.
I just measured my crank but these are close but rough measuremrnts since the bearing and gears are installed.
Main bearing journal: 1.020
Space\gap between bearing face and timing gear: .150
Gear journal from the bottom of the timing gear to the top of the distributor gear: 1.545 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
VWNut_69 Samba Member
Joined: November 29, 2012 Posts: 207 Location: Boise, ID
|
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Can you post a pic similar to mine?
Mike |
|
Back to top |
|
|
VWNut_69 Samba Member
Joined: November 29, 2012 Posts: 207 Location: Boise, ID
|
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Can you post a pic similar to mine?
Did you check the brass gear measurements?
Mike |
|
Back to top |
|
|
pigzsnout Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009 Posts: 95 Location: Biloxi, MS
|
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
VWNut_69 wrote: |
Can you post a pic similar to mine?
Did you check the brass gear measurements?
Mike |
I dont know how to post pictures. PM me your email and I'll send you a few. The gears are somewhere in the neighborhood of.447 and .790. Granted my spacer has been ground down but the space between the 2 gears is .297 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
VWNut_69 Samba Member
Joined: November 29, 2012 Posts: 207 Location: Boise, ID
|
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
How did you put the gear on? Heat it up and drop it on or press it on?
Mike |
|
Back to top |
|
|
pigzsnout Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009 Posts: 95 Location: Biloxi, MS
|
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
VWNut_69 wrote: |
How did you put the gear on? Heat it up and drop it on or press it on?
Mike |
Gears were pressed on. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2002 Posts: 4394 Location: Brew City
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
pigzsnout Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009 Posts: 95 Location: Biloxi, MS
|
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
[email protected] wrote: |
What brand crankshaft is it? I had a problem a couple years ago with two different manufacturers. I had to sand down the brass gear about .040-.050 for the gear stack to fit. |
Its an old school Small Car Specialties forged 78.4. Do you feel that its better to remove the .aterial from the brass gear instead of the spacer like I did?? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
|
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I wonder if the crank gear has enough raidi/chamfer to go down far enough?I dont see any issue doing it your way or thining out the brass gear.( I would thin the steel racer spacer).
is it possiable the gear wasent pressed on far enough?(I hope the crank was supported properly for this procedure,I like the heating of the gear best) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
VWNut_69 Samba Member
Joined: November 29, 2012 Posts: 207 Location: Boise, ID
|
Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Pigzsnout sent me his pics to post, it looks like the distributor gear is a bit wide:
Mike |
|
Back to top |
|
|
pigzsnout Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009 Posts: 95 Location: Biloxi, MS
|
Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks Mike. I hope trimming down the spacer as I did resolved the issue and doesnt compound into further crank or timing problems once the engine is installed. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
66brm Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2010 Posts: 3676 Location: Perth Western Australia
|
Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Is the short block together yet? if not it may be an idea to engineer blue the distributor drive gear and check the contact pattern with the dist installed in the case half, just in case something doesn't quite line up right _________________ Aust. RHD 66 Type 1
Aust. RHD 57 Type 1 Oval
modok wrote: |
I am an expert at fitting things in holes, been doing it a long time |
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
pigzsnout Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009 Posts: 95 Location: Biloxi, MS
|
Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
66brm wrote: |
Is the short block together yet? if not it may be an idea to engineer blue the distributor drive gear and check the contact pattern with the dist installed in the case half, just in case something doesn't quite line up right |
No. Tonight I just finished tapping the oil galley plugs and the got full flow fitting set properly. Now the case is ready for assembly |
|
Back to top |
|
|
miniman82 Samba Swamp Donkey
Joined: March 22, 2005 Posts: 9515 Location: Southern Maryland
|
Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
Do what I did: clearance the cheapest part, I.E. the brass gear. If you take .020" from each side of it, I doubt it will notice. _________________ Build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=212747
Glenn wrote: |
satterley_sr wrote: |
I just wanted to bitch but I'm getting no sympathy. |
Welcome to the Samba. |
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
|
Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
and what differance does taking .020 from each side make???none.the gear is brass,Ive sen cracked ones,I would leave all the brass there that I could. thus trim the spacer, Ive had them a bit more than others.I also like the gear&clip to be intarfearance to help hold the clip.I also add a bend or two to the clip.I have a scat crank where the grove wasway too deep&the clip was loose, that will tighten it up.on the sides of the groove.getter done and go have fun. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|