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help rebuilding motor
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Lebleboojian
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:05 am    Post subject: help rebuilding motor Reply with quote

I have a 1300cc case single port engine that I'm rebuilding. The engine code is fo75231x. The trouble that i'm having is trying to align the crank to distributor, to camshaft. I aligned the dots on the crank to the cam that's easy. I put the front pulley to align tdc mark and I aligned the distributor with the notch on the distributor. For some reason it doesn't look right. I thought the front of the cam had to be horizontal where the oil pump enters? But it's not when the pulley is aligned. Also the front pulley there is a bump, a small notch on the left and two small notches on the right. I aligned the bump with the case half. Is that right? Help!

Last edited by Lebleboojian on Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:33 am; edited 1 time in total
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VeedubPastor
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The slot for the oil pump in the cam has nothing to do with timing the engine. It doesn't matter what angle the slot for the oil pump is in it's rotation.
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75smith
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

if its a bolt on cam, then the cam sounds like it may be misaligned

did your bolt it on so the cam slot points to the dot on the cam gear?
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thomas.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This link has a pretty good "how to" to compare with your build about 3/4 way down the 1st page.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=513083&highlight=builds
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Lebleboojian
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a riveted cam gear.
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Volks Wagen
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The bump on the pulley is TDC. Put the pulley to TDC where #1 cylinder fires. Put the distributor shaft in (having your end-play checked) so that the slot is at right angles to the case split. The slot splits the top of the distributor shaft off centre into a 'big half' and a 'small half'. Wink The big half of the shaft circle is to the flywheel end, the small half of the circle is to the pulley side.
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VeedubPastor
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He's talking about the oil pump slot on the end of the camshaft - not the distributor drive slots for the distributor shaft dogs. At least that's what he said in the first post.
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Volks Wagen
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ooops - right - that slot doesn't matter on a riveted cam as you mentioned, as long as the dots are aligned with cam dot between crank dots. No harm checking the distrib though as that's the trickier bit.
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ashman40
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The process as described in the above link is okay, but it makes one mistake.... "Set the distributor body with the timing mark to the 4 o’clock position as shown in the manual. Align the rotor to the mark on the distributor body." This only applies for some distributors (like 009), but does not apply for all distributors.

As suggested, start by installing the distributor drive gear in the case with the proper spacers to set the end-play. Don't forget the spring.

Align the drive gear so the smaller section is towards the crank pulley end of the case and slot is perpendicular to case split. This is the proper position for #1 TDC.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Install the distributor so the bottom engages with the drive gear. The rotor is now pointing to where #1 plug wire should be installed, there is no arguing this. Rotate the distributor body (not the rotor or crank) until the #1 plug wire notch along the rim of the distributor rim lines up with the rotor tip. Tighten down the distributor clamp.

Drop the crank into the left case half while holding the #1 connecting rod fully extended (like #1 cylinder is at TDC). So now the distributor and crank are indexed properly.

Mesh the crank gear and cam gears so that the dots are together and roll the cam into position. You can now rotate the crank and the cam should also rotate in the opposite direction. Double check that the crank/cam dots are properly meshed. Now the crank and cam are indexed properly, which should also mean the cam and distributor are indexed properly.

Test: Rotate the crank until the distributor rotor is pointing to the #1 mark on the rim of the distributor. The crank should be at TDC. You can tell because the crank pulley woodruff key slot will be closest to #4 cylinder (as seen from a fully installed engine this is the 9-o'clock position).
Look at the cam lobes. The two front most (front of car) cam lobes shared by cylinders #1 and #3 should be pointing in the direction of cylinder #3. This is the proper position when #1 cylinder is at TDC of the compression stroke. If the cam lobes are not both pointing to the #3 cylinder your cam may not be at #1 TDC, or the cam gear may be installed incorrectly (bolt-on cam gears).


FYI, there is no spec for where the dots on the crank or cam should be at any point. When they are meshed together the crank pulley is at 90-deg ATDC, but that is not something you should use as a reference.

The same goes for the slot in the cam. There is no listed spec for where the cam slot should be at any point in the crank/cam timing. It drives the oil pump, that is all. The slot is used when attaching bolt on cam gears. When the cam is in position at TDC for #1 cylinder, the dot on the gear will be close to the position shown below, but again this is not a listed reference. Notice that the far cam lobes are pointed down towards #3 cylinder.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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Lebleboojian
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is definitely helpful
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talljordan
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Similar issue, except I kind of already put my engine together but I forgot to time the distributor gear (dumbass rookie mistake, I know....).

Is there a trick that i can use to properly time it with the engine assembled so I don't have to tear it down again?

Unrelated question is there some sort of seal behind the pulley? what stops the oil from pouring out...
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Volks Wagen
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

talljordan wrote:
Similar issue, except I kind of already put my engine together but I forgot to time the distributor gear (dumbass rookie mistake, I know....).

Is there a trick that i can use to properly time it with the engine assembled so I don't have to tear it down again?

Unrelated question is there some sort of seal behind the pulley? what stops the oil from pouring out...


You can get a distributor shaft puller. Then ...

The bump on the pulley is TDC. Put the pulley to TDC where #1 cylinder fires - (search thesamba.com to find out how to find TDC). Put the distributor shaft in (having your end-play checked and the washers/shims placed down the distrib drive hole) so that the slot is at right angles to the case split. The slot splits the top of the distributor shaft off centre into a 'big half' and a 'small half'. Wink The big half of the shaft circle is to the flywheel end, the small half of the circle is to the pulley side.

No there's no seal behind the pulley.
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SBD
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

talljordan wrote:
what stops the oil from pouring out...

The oil doesn't pour out because it doesn't normally reach that high. Very Happy Also, there's a reverse thread on the hub of the pulley that is supposed to fling any oil that makes it there back into the crank case.



And I've managed to pull the distributor drive by wedging a pencil (with the point of the lead broken off) into the top of it and slowly/carefully pulling the drive out of the case. A pointed end dowel would work too. It's worth a try before you go out & buy the special tool. Don't forget that you have to have the fuel pump push rod out of the way (can't remember for sure about the Bakelite pump mounting base).


Last edited by SBD on Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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flyboat
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Set the crank to TDC. Then align the dizzy drive to the crank. you may have to try it a few times to get it right. Then put the cam in. Rotate the crank down so the dots on the gear are close to where the cam gear contacts the crank gear. Roll the two together to mesh the gears. If the dots all line up, good, if not roll them back, reset and try again. Remember when the dots on the gears are meshed together, the dizzy drive will not be aligned because the crank is no longer TDC.
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jdub63
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As you install the distributor drive gear the slot will almost be aligned with the front (of the car) stud for the fuel pump. As the gear engages with the crank the gear mesh will spin the slot in the correct alignment. As pictured above...
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