My 1600 dp seams to be underpowered

Fordman73

I have a sand rail with a 1600 dual port I have no idea if it's stock or not but it does not pull dunes like I think it should I run out of power at top of mild dune and I want to do bigger dunes it weighs like 950 lbs I think I looked at carb I don't think it's the right one it had been adapted to fit it says h30/31 pict and I want more power can I just put a bigger carb on it

andk5591 · Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:53 am Post subject:

First thing would be to see exactly what you have - do a leakdown test, make sure you have a proper tune up and also, tell use what exactly you have - distributor, carb, exhaust, what the timing is set to etc.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

Fordman73 · Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:00 am Post subject:

Well there is a lot of numbers on the distributor last 3 are 009 and I don't see any leaks and it has just a normal stinger pipe with a spark arrestor at tip I did change oil and plugs

Fordman73 · Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:04 am Post subject:

It seams to be more complicated with all the questions I'm used to v8 engines where I can just pull the smaller carb off and put a bigger one and have more power without worrying bout other things

andk5591 · Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:29 am Post subject:

OK - seriously - an engine is an engine - throwing a larger carb on a V8 does NOT always give you more power. I mean, throwing a Holley 800 on an otherwise stock Chevy 350 is WAYYYYYY over carbed and it'll run like shit.

The engine is a system. And yeah - if you want any to run right, you deal with everything. Going back to a small block, you have known combos that work. Certain size carb, on a specific intake, with specific heads and header will give a pretty much known HP and torque curve. If you mismatch components, such as too much carb or too large header primaries, you will hurt performance. This is no different, just every couple horsepower you can gain makes a more noticable difference.

So - lets go back to your VW engine. I dont run dunes, so I am not sure what you are needed, but low and mid torque is not a bad thing. Putting things on that optimise your power above 5000 RPMS doesnt help at all because the engine wont live long in that range.

Example - wanted a mild engine for my wifes 61 bug that would live forever, put together a combo that works VERY well in a daily driver with a totally stock 1600 bottom end. Just a little head porting, dual carbs, CORRECT header, matching distributor and a good tune - puts out just shy of 70HP at the crank.

Go to the performance engine section and do some research.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

Fordman73 · Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:51 am Post subject:

I know adding a huge overkill carb won't help like on a v8 I just need to step up the power a bit I usually keep the rpm around 3500 I shift at 3750 I want to go up the hills and have it not bog down at top I want it scream over the top I don't want to go dual carbs it's too many parts that could go wrong I was thinking of a progressive carb that way I can just cruise and when I need the power lay my foot into it and open up the secondaries

Fordman73 · Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:57 am Post subject:

http://www.appletreeauto.com/CERAMIC-RACING-EXHAUST-1-5-8-2050-30/ this is the exhaust I have

Fordman73 · Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:22 am Post subject:

What did u mean by leakage test

andk5591 · Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:22 am Post subject:

To get a good handle on the condition of the long block (valves, heads, rings etc), you do a leakdown test. Requires a special piece of equipment that allows you to pump 90 psi of air into a cylinder and you can measure how much air is getting past the valves, rings, etc. By listening, you can tell where the leakage occurs. Way more helpful than a simple compression test.

Its like this - if you got trashed rings or messed up valves, whats the point in throwing parts at it initially. Have a solid foundation to build on.

And yeah - not saying go dual carbs, just what a relatively stock 1600 can do with a decent combination and this was measured on a dyno.

One more thing - there has been LOTS of posts on headers and such. The bottom line is that too big kills torque on the low end. 1 3/8" is a good size for a non-race engine until you are approaching 2 liters.....

Once again - its about a combination.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

Fordman73 · Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:30 am Post subject:

I just checked the timing it's 20 advanced

Dr OnHolliday · Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:08 am Post subject:

Lots of threads here on samba about how to correctly check / set timing with a 009 distributor. You should search and read a couple, because 20 degrees is not correct.
_________________
1965 Type 1 sunroof Baja / about 70k miles on self-rebuilt '74 1600 and counting / SP heads and aftermarket valve keepers / non-doghouse shroud with external cooler and filter / 1.5 qt extended sump / Weber 32/36 DFAV progressive carb / 009 dist with Pertronix / 1.25 ratio rockers and ball adjusters / 1.5" stainless steel J-pipes and carbon steel baja exhaust

Fordman73 · Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:14 am Post subject:

Ok i will check on what it needs to be timed at and I also found an old 34 pict3 in a box of parts it came with I will rebuild it and throw it on the engine and see how it runs

Fordman73 · Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:02 pm Post subject:

That idle at 20 advanced was at idle what should it be at idle running a 34 pict 3

Fordman73 · Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:16 pm Post subject:

Has anybody tried thishttp://www.aircooledtech.com/34pict3_modification/

Fordman73 · Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:12 pm Post subject:

I'm going to run a 34pict 3 with a 034 SVDA

andk5591 · Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:02 pm Post subject:

I think that you meant with the 009 is that it advanced 20 degrees from the idle position, which would be about right if your idel advance is around 8-10 degrees. . Your total advance would be 28-30 degrees. You need to confirm that you know where TDC is. Theres a variety of notches on the crank pulleys that can be all over the place. So - unless you either have a degree pulley or actually determined where TDC is and have a correct mark on the pulley, you are guessing.

the 34PICT with an SVDA is a good match and will perform very well assuming you have a good carb and a good distributor.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

Fordman73 · Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:19 am Post subject:

Yeah going to use a brand new distrubitor and try to rebuild that 34 carb

andk5591 · Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:47 am Post subject:

OK - do some research on SVDAs - lots of crap out there. Have a Kulhwerks SVDA with electronic points module that I had on my one car for about a week - total piece of crap. If you can get a Genuine Bosch, that is best - a quality rebuilt would be good. As far as carb goes - big concern for you is wear on the throttle shaft bushings. Do a little research on that.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

Fordman73 · Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:19 am Post subject:

This is the distributor I am buying come pay day Http://www.svda-distributor.com/ and already checked they're is no play in the throttle plate and tube and that said the engine will only be ran 40 hours a year if that

andk5591 · Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:54 am Post subject:

This is why I say do some research - read through this about the distributors

You have input from some heavy hitters that know there stuff on here. Such as Jeff with Kaddieshack and Glenn

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=572037&highlight=hot+spark+svda
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...


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