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pig-pen
Samba Member
Joined: December 04, 2012
Posts: 570
Location: United Kingdom
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 Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 2:42 am Post subject: |
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can I buy the in / out cover from anywhere without the pump? I can only find them as a combo item, with pumps that are way too big.
Or do I just buy a 21mm pump and a combo pump cover and keep bigger pump as a paperweight or something? |
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Snort
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Joined: April 02, 2005
Posts: 1957
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:06 am Post subject: |
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| pig-pen wrote: |
can I buy the in / out cover from anywhere without the pump? I can only find them as a combo item, with pumps that are way too big.
Or do I just buy a 21mm pump and a combo pump cover and keep bigger pump as a paperweight or something? |
Try calling CB Performance, maybe they have a solution for you.
It's been a while since I looked at this topic so I had forgotten that this was already addressed, but read the whole topic and you will see that the 6mm to 8mm step stud is not applicable here because the hole pattern on the case was adjusted when they made the switch to 8mm. This means that both 8mm and 6mm pumps fit the early cases, but if you use a step stud in an early case the 8mm threads will not fit the oil pump without enlarging the pump holes. Just stick to the 6mm studs on the case and it will work.
But that leads to another problem with the in-out pump covers. Some of them are designed to be installed with allen head screws as the screw head is recessed into the casting of the cover... no room to fit a standard nut or wrench to turn it. That means if you're installing that type of 8mm cover on your 6mm case you are going to have to be even more creative to make it fit properly.
One more point for you to consider is that if you want to use a typical full flow pump cover they are more adaptable to a standard pump because you can simply block the outlet side of the pump where it fits into the case and the outlet path is created by drilling and tapping the case. But these in-out covers are designed to fit on a pump which has an additional passage to route the oil back into the normal pump outlet. So you are limited to the size of pump available in the marketplace. Here is a photo of one from the gallery.
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Frederik
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Joined: August 18, 2007
Posts: 578
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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| BugMan114 wrote: |
| Snort wrote: |
How about another location for the return line, such as above the oil pressure switch, where it is nice and large and flat? As long as it returns to a location before the oil cooler, wouldn't that work just as well?
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will this work? seems like a much better place for it, but will it work? |
Didn't find if any anwered this? One of my cases have a bolt there, don't know why. Almost look stock.
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EverettB 
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Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 69823
Location: Phoenix Metro
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petrol punk
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Joined: August 21, 2007
Posts: 975
Location: Las Vegas, NV
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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| 77ducci wrote: |
Here is mine running a CB in-out pump:
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I love this setup. I have the same in/out cover because the integral oil filter style pump isn't compatible with 36hp lower tin, but I still ended up cutting the tin some to fit braided stainless oil hoses. This looks a million times cleaner and you don't have to worry about the oil hoses rubbing the exhaust or the stale air flaps hitting them and getting caught.
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sled
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Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 6179
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:37 pm Post subject: Re: Full Flow a 36hp Engine |
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that setup appears to have the oil filter mounted to the car body with hardlines??
the lines will eventually fatigue and crack.
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RWK
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Joined: June 24, 2009
Posts: 1349
Location: S.W. MI
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| Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Frederik wrote: |
| BugMan114 wrote: |
| Snort wrote: |
How about another location for the return line, such as above the oil pressure switch, where it is nice and large and flat? As long as it returns to a location before the oil cooler, wouldn't that work just as well?
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will this work? seems like a much better place for it, but will it work? |
Didn't find if any anwered this? One of my cases have a bolt there, don't know why. Almost look stock.
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There is not enough mat'l to tap on later case's in this location, if you do you will have to redrill the galley through the plug or fitting, I used a threadless plug here with a back up plate when I drilled and tapped a later style case, not sure on early case's though
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Mr. Okrasa
Original Old Speed
Joined: May 20, 2000
Posts: 727
Location: Eastside, Costa Mesa. So. Califas...Loco's ;-)
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ALB
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Location: beautiful suburban Wet Coast of Canada
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| Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:34 am Post subject: Re: Full Flow a 36hp Engine |
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I don't know how well the brass return fitting fits under the pulley tin on a 36 hp engine but on a 1600 if you get the fitting deep enough in the case and round off the fitting with a file, a little clearance work on the tin with a hammer and a little heat is all you need. Most people will cut a hole in the tin, make it too big so it leaks warm air into the engine compartment and there's simply no need for it. Hope this helps. Al
PS- That's the same fitting from Berg as what's on the engine in Mr. Okrasa's post above.
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Frederik
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Joined: August 18, 2007
Posts: 578
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:26 pm Post subject: Re: Full Flow a 36hp Engine |
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Wouldn't it be possible to use the oil pressure sender as a return spot also? |
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RWK
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Location: S.W. MI
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| Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:51 am Post subject: Re: Full Flow a 36hp Engine |
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As long as the fitting you put in there doesn't block the passage when you screw it in, not many threads there now, probably why the straight thread fitting that you have, does it seal with a o-ring or flat crush washer? you don't need many threads with that type.
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Frederik
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Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:31 am Post subject: Re: Full Flow a 36hp Engine |
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To be honest I don't think I'm going to use that case but I like the idea. The fitting seals with a crush washer. I just took it out to see how mutch material it was in that place. In theory couldn't I drill and tap the center of the existing fitting for the return fitting?
If I use a full flow oil filter it's going to be a "fram style" filter (Mann) on the fan house and if possible I don't want to go through the tin for the return. Couldn't you also fit a banjo to the pressure sender for the return, just like the outlet for a bypass filter? Or am I thinking wrong? |
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Dan22
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Joined: August 30, 2019
Posts: 470
Location: Battle Ground, WA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:54 pm Post subject: Re: Full Flow a 36hp Engine |
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Does anyone have a good picture of the oil line routing when using the Berg kit on a fully fitted, otherwise stock motor? It looks like the line out of the pump will not clear the end of the shoe box tin.
I like the angled up outlet version in one of the earlier pictures in this thread but the Berg unit comes straight out and has an adapter in the lineup too.
Would the 45 deg fitting like the buses use work in this case?
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Mr. Okrasa
Original Old Speed
Joined: May 20, 2000
Posts: 727
Location: Eastside, Costa Mesa. So. Califas...Loco's ;-)
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Dan22
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Joined: August 30, 2019
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Location: Battle Ground, WA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:40 am Post subject: Re: Full Flow a 36hp Engine |
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Thanks Joe. I was inspired by that picture. Yes that is a nice setup but without the stock tin in place you cannot see the interference.
I am working with the Berg sales rep on a fitting layout that either angles or jogs the outlet line from the pump cover up slightly. Pix show the tight fit but I think it can be done.
I want my engine to last a looonnng time so filtration is important to me. Pump is already plugged and the case has the 1/4" NPT tap into the supply galley.
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Dan22
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Location: Battle Ground, WA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:55 am Post subject: Re: Full Flow a 36hp Engine |
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Played around on CAD and I think a single 45 will work out of the pump cover.
I am going to go for it. Shoebox position relative to the pump is pretty closely represented. I can tie the two lines together to help support each other.
I hope this helps someone else down the road. If I remember, I will post final pictures with it installed.
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chris fryer
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67 Sunroof
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Joined: February 22, 2014
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Location: Salisbury, MD
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:32 pm Post subject: Re: Full Flow a 36hp Engine |
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Very good timing as I am about to install my full flow system myself. Where do people find the brass screw-in fitting? I believe it’s ground down to prevent hitting the engine tin? Digging into mine tomorrow!
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Dan22
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Joined: August 30, 2019
Posts: 470
Location: Battle Ground, WA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:05 pm Post subject: Re: Full Flow a 36hp Engine |
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| 67 Sunroof wrote: |
| Very good timing as I am about to install my full flow system myself. Where do people find the brass screw-in fitting? I believe it’s ground down to prevent hitting the engine tin? Digging into mine tomorrow! |
67 SR, These fittings are fairly common but Gene Berg has the profiled ones for specific oil pumps or inlet configuration. A lot depends on your case. Check out his site or call them.
Here is my progress. I got the parts today. The 1/4" ninety that returns the oil to the block fits perfect without having to machine the boss down to make clearance. This is of course the 36HP case only. I did drill out the inside up to 5/16" for better flow.
Here is the pump outlet with the 45 deg fitting. It will work, especially when angled toward the motor. My only concern will be the clearance to the exhaust pipe out of #4 or to force the line down away.
I kinda like this arrangement too as it is clean, keeps the line heading the right direction, and the large internal oil passage will not create much restriction.
The Berg pump cover is also clearanced for the pulley tin. It may just barely touch, or not even, with my pump setup. I am using a 21mm gear size pump. I wish they made a 6mm stud cover version still.
Progress!!
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Lingwendil
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