GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic"

[miniman82]

[bugninva]

[Glenn]

[bugninva]

No way, can't get that kind of entertainment just anywhere
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[VW_MAN_73]

Does a transmission on a 73 bus take 7.42 pints of gear oil? Thanks.
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1973 beetle

[bugninva]

[VW_MAN_73]

Thank you!
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1973 beetle

[Hnoroian]

39 pages of back and forth gl4 and gl5... OMG it never ends! I'm changing my fluid this weekend, 1 because it's getting tougher to shift, 2 I haven't done it and don't know when the PO had done it, and 3 I'm going to use gl5

I believe Glenn and my local acvw mechanic tells me/us... Off to napa tomorrow for some AAA discounts...
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Stupid people do stupid things.

[Glenn]

Last night I was invited to a open house at IMC (a national parts wholesaler). They had a number of parts suppliers including Bosch, Sach, Mahle and Ligui Moly lubricants.

I talked to all of them about the needs of aircooled VW owners and all were responsive to my concerns about maintaining high quality and parts availability. When I talked to the rep from Liqui-Moly about the needs for lubricants he gave me the contact info for the experts back at their German office.

Here's what I asked:

[Quokka42]

I had wondered about the LS graded oils, as LS diffs had definitive failures due to the extra additives in early GL5 oils.
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There has only ever been one man who was perfect, and they nailed Him to a cross.

[gears]

Glen

I'm not familiar with the Liquid Moly oil, but I concur with the suggested dino GL5. However, if you're referring to the ZF which is now running my discs, you don't need a special oil, or any added friction modifiers. Your LSD may be ZF, but your discs & plates are now GT, which are extremely durable. Friction modifiers are needed only to eliminate an irritating chatter, and will often have an affect on synchronizer action.
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aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com

[Glenn]

[udidwht]

Using this:

Amsoil 80W-90

AMSOIL 80W-90 Synthetic Gear Lube is a multi-functional product designed to surpass the requirements of equipment and automotive applications calling for an SAE 80W-90 viscosity grade. Formulated with wax-free synthetic base oils and high quality additives, AMSOIL 80W-90 Synthetic Gear Lube resists thermal breakdown. Its naturally high viscosity index and shear stable construction improves film strength and viscosity retention. AMSOIL 80W-90 Synthetic Gear Lube prevents wear, resists heat, and protects gears. It lasts longer in service than conventional gear oils and increases equipment life.

AMSOIL 80W-90 Synthetic Gear Lube provides:

High Load Gear and Bearing Protection
Longer Oil and Equipment Life
Lower Maintenance Costs
Compatibility With Conventional and Synthetic Gear Lubes
Multi-functional for Multiple Applications

APPLICATIONS
AMSOIL 80W-90 Synthetic Gear Lube is recommended for use under various combinations of high-speed, shock loads, low speeds and high torque conditions. It is recommended for use in all light and heavy-duty, automotive, commercial or industrial applications requiring SAE 80W-90 EP gear lube. AMSOIL 80W-90 Synthetic Gear Lube replaces all conventional 80W-90 gear oils and exceeds the lubrication and performance requirements of front and rear differentials, transfer cases, transaxles, manual transmissions, s oil lubricated wheel bearings, and steering gear boxes that require any of the following specifications:

API GL-5 & MT-1
MIL-PRF-2105E
Dana SHAES 234 (Formerly Eaton PS-037) for 250,000 miles
MACK GO-J
Arvin/Meritor 0-76D plus hypoid gear oil specifications from all domestic and foreign manufacturers such as GM, Ford and Daimler Chrysler.
Can also be used rear axles where API Service GL-4 lubricant is recommended.

TYPICAL TECHNICAL PROPERTIES

AMSOIL 80W-90 Synthetic Gear Lube


SAE 80W-90

Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)


16.0

Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)


128.1
Viscosity Index (ASTM D-2270)
133
Brookfield Viscosity, cP (150,000 Max) @-26°C
40,482

Flash Point °C (°F) (ASTM D 92)
216 (421)

Pour Point °C (°F) (ASTM D 97)


-42 (-44)
Falex Procedure B (ASTM D-3233) (failure load, lbf.)
2000
Foam Stability (ASTM D-892)
0/0/0

For product service life in differentials, consult your owner’s manual or the Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) to establish the application, NORMAL or SEVERE.
.
Normal Service

Severe Service
Cars, SUVs, Light Trucks Drain at 100,000 miles of service or according to the owner’s manual, whichever is longer Drain at 50,000 miles of service or according to the owner’s manual, whichever is longer
Heavy Duty Class 8 Line Haul Follow the OEM drain interval (miles or hours) for synthetic oil up to 250,000 miles or three years, whichever comes first.
Vocational/Delivery Follow the OEM drain interval (miles or hours) for synthetic oil up to 120,000 miles or three years, whichever comes first.
Heavy Duty Off-Road Follow the OEM drain interval (miles or hours) for synthetic oil up to 100,000 miles or two years, whichever comes first.

For product service life in non-differential applications, consult owner’s manual or the OEM for either normal or severe synthetic oil service intervals. Where service intervals are unavailable, drain at twice the interval for conventional oil.

Note: AMSOIL does not support extended drain intervals where water contamination occurs. Check and service the gear oil frequently when water contamination is possible.

Gear oils should be changed more frequently when operating vehicles or equipment in dusty or dirty conditions unless the gear system is properly sealed and equipped with membrane type breathers.

AMSOIL 80W-90 SYNTHETIC GEAR LUBE is compatible with synthetic and conventional gear oils, however mixing oils reduces the benefits and nullifies the extended service life recommendations.

AMSOIL 80W-90 SYNTHETIC GEAR LUBE is compatible with most limited slip differentials. If limited slip differential chatter occurs, add AMSOIL Slip-Lock™ friction modifier additive.

AMSOIL has optimized gear lube performance for specific operating conditions. However, AMSOIL gear lubes are multi-functional and may be used in many different applications. This chart conveys the best AMSOIL recommendation based on product design and operating environment.

HEALTH & SAFETY
This product is not expected to cause health concerns when used for the intended application and according to the recommendations in the Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS). An MSDS is available via the Internet at www.amsoil.com or upon request at (715) 392-7101. Keep Out of Reach of Children. Don’t pollute.

For warranty information, visit www.amsoil.com/warranty.aspx.
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1972 Westy Hardtop/Type-4 2056cc
96mm Biral AA P/C's~7.8:1CR
Headflow Masters New AMC 42x36mm heads w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
73 Web Cam w/Web solids
Dual 40mm IDF Webers - LM-2 - 47.5 idles/125 mains/190 air corr./F11 tubes/28mm Vents - Float height 10.45mm/Drop 32mm
Bosch SVDA w/Pertronix module (7.5 initial 28 total @ 3400rpm)
Bosch W8CC plugs
Pertronix Flamethrower 40K coil
S&S 4-1 w/Walker QP 17862
3 rib 002 Trans
185R14 Hankook tires

[Quokka42]

I don't think we needed the whole blurb there. The other side of the coin is interesting, a local oil tech guy said the reason a lot of GL-5 oils say not to use them with LSDs is due to certain older types that were very popular which used a copper-containing material in the friction cones or clutches that broke down under the same high additive conditions that mining trucks and tractors love. The same manufacturer produces a synthetic lube that is both GL-5 and compatible with LSDs but I never got a straight answer if this meant it was good for our transaxles.
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There has only ever been one man who was perfect, and they nailed Him to a cross.

[Hnoroian]

Just an update because we all know we like to see them, it's been almost a month since I've changed the oil in the trans with GL-5. As the bug is a semi daily driver it has made a huge improvement in the way it runs, it is smooth, quiet, and shifting is like a hot knife through butter.
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Stupid people do stupid things.

[gears]

One thing I will say about amsoil is their marketing strategy. Make every Joe a "dealer", and the spam flows freely.

If a manufacturer warns you about using their GL5 with brass components, I'd listen. And then move on to a different manufacturer of GL5.

The Porsche GT3 street car uses brass discs in its LSD. What a joke. Those discs become slick almost as quickly as the old 993 carbon street discs.

It's interesting to note that the brass discs seem unaffected by a wide variety of GL5 oils (from the few hundred oily brass discs I've replaced). That is, the material hasn't scuffed, torn away, or even discolored .. the discs have merely become slick.
_________________
aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com

[Quokka42]

The disks become slick from the layer of copper sulphate/oil that builds up on them. Just because you don't understand a problem, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Having this level of additives is not a fault, it is done to meet the original requirements of the specification. While it is great they have come up with alternatives that work with LSDs and transaxles, they don't work as well in the original applications GL5 was created for and these guys will seek out the "real deal."
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There has only ever been one man who was perfect, and they nailed Him to a cross.

[gears]

The "Real Deal" is a GL5 that contains no sulfur. And these discs are going slick with ANY type of oil .. that I understand clearly.
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aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com

[Quokka42]

No, have a look back. GL5 was originally a lubricant with high levels of additives containing phosphorous and sulphur, and those specs for heavy earthmoving equipment still do. About the time they came out I was working at a mine/processing plant that used H2S in it's processing, so I am well familiar with the black slippery surface you witnessed. There was a constant odour of both the bad egg smell of H2S and ammonia in the air and the copper test strips would change colour over time. The good news (?) is that you can't smell H2S when it gets to lethal levels, so we had to carry gas detectors to tell us when to don our masks.
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There has only ever been one man who was perfect, and they nailed Him to a cross.

[gears]

Great input .. but you've misread what I said.