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Kjarahz
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2013
Posts: 44
Location: United States
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 Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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Well here's the update.
We have the timing fixed currently, enough to fire properly and run.
Next problem: it will run on spray only, not it's own fuel and fuel source.
The injectors are not getting any power, we've verified this. What we don't know is what could we have hooked up improperly... So, what isn't hooked up properly that should be giving us power at the injectors? |
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KTPhil 
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34009
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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How are you measuring "power" at the injectors. From the lack of a click? From a VOM (which may not register the 60msec pulses)? Noid light?
Lots can stop injectors. Do all four fail? Do you get the two fuel pump relay clicks? Does your fuel pump actually run? |
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Kjarahz
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2013
Posts: 44
Location: United States
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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| KTPhil wrote: |
| How are you measuring "power" at the injectors. From the lack of a click? From a VOM (which may not register the 60msec pulses)? Noid light? |
Not sure what he used, looked like a half circle test light thing. Definitely did nothing, also he's mentioned before he couldn't hear the injectors firing. So this just re-confirmed what we thought.
I can't say for certain all four fail but I'm I would say yes, they all fail. The car runs with a can of 'go', not from it's on gas source. Also the fuel pump makes a 'normal' fuel pump noise when turned on, as it did before when the car ran.
Everything worked before we pulled the old engine out, the fact that the FI system isn't working now still leads me to believe something wasn't hooked up properly. |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22422
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:08 am Post subject: |
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| Kjarahz wrote: |
| KTPhil wrote: |
| How are you measuring "power" at the injectors. From the lack of a click? From a VOM (which may not register the 60msec pulses)? Noid light? |
Not sure what he used, looked like a half circle test light thing. Definitely did nothing, also he's mentioned before he couldn't hear the injectors firing. So this just re-confirmed what we thought.
I can't say for certain all four fail but I'm I would say yes, they all fail. The car runs with a can of 'go', not from it's on gas source. Also the fuel pump makes a 'normal' fuel pump noise when turned on, as it did before when the car ran.
Everything worked before we pulled the old engine out, the fact that the FI system isn't working now still leads me to believe something wasn't hooked up properly. |
I'd double check that the trigger points plug is in place and seated. That plug runs the injectors, and without it, you won't fire them off.
Another thing to check is the head temp sensor. If it's bad or disconnected, the engine won't run on the FI system.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Kjarahz
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2013
Posts: 44
Location: United States
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:12 am Post subject: |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
I'd double check that the trigger points plug is in place and seated. That plug runs the injectors, and without it, you won't fire them off.
Another thing to check is the head temp sensor. If it's bad or disconnected, the engine won't run on the FI system. |
Confirmed all of this has been done, which is why the fuel pump works. It wasn't for a little while before, but that was a couple days ago. I think he's going to verify the computers is getting power by checking the main fuse when he has time. |
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Kjarahz
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2013
Posts: 44
Location: United States
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:58 am Post subject: |
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Well, we 'touched' the cables that went to the starter that were involved with the fuel injection and all of the others that dealt with it and low and behold it worked.
Buttoning everything up now and will see how road worthy it is, but it's working. On the list is a carb. setup to increase reliability. Other than that I believe stuff is on track. |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22422
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:17 am Post subject: |
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| Kjarahz wrote: |
Well, we 'touched' the cables that went to the starter that were involved with the fuel injection and all of the others that dealt with it and low and behold it worked.
Buttoning everything up now and will see how road worthy it is, but it's working. On the list is a carb. setup to increase reliability. Other than that I believe stuff is on track. |
You or someone else must have knocked off the wire that runs to the ECU from the starter. I'd just double check all of the FI wiring in the engine bay though, and make sure everything is plugged in good and tight. Some here even go thru the trouble to tighten the ends on the injector terminals a little, to make sure they're nice and tight. Remember, the D-jet FI system IS resistance based, and any extra resistance can cause minor running/tuning issues.
If you decide to get a carb kit, look for either a complete Solex PDSIT 32 set up (for a type 3), or get a Weber ICT kit from CB Performance. Either will work great, but you might want to get the Solex carbs rebuilt before you try to use them, as they'll most likely be used (just a heads up on that).
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Kjarahz
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2013
Posts: 44
Location: United States
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:08 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the recommendations Bobnotch.
Unfortunately the engine is blowing out all kinds of blue smoke, so all of this work done and the engine could be not so good. We are going to adjust timing and make sure it's correct then let it run for a while, if it doesn't clear up well I won't know what to do. This has been an ongoing project since October 2013, warranty? Possibly, if I'm lucky but I'm really just getting sick of the constant issues. I understand it's an old car but this one isn't the cars fault and to find out about it well over a half year later is a downer. |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22422
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:11 am Post subject: |
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| Kjarahz wrote: |
Thanks for the recommendations Bobnotch.
Unfortunately the engine is blowing out all kinds of blue smoke, so all of this work done and the engine could be not so good. We are going to adjust timing and make sure it's correct then let it run for a while, if it doesn't clear up well I won't know what to do. This has been an ongoing project since October 2013, warranty? Possibly, if I'm lucky but I'm really just getting sick of the constant issues. I understand it's an old car but this one isn't the cars fault and to find out about it well over a half year later is a downer. |
Yeah, I'd probably let it run, and see IF it clears out. It might be a case of the cylinders being oiled up (for installation of the pistons), to heads leaking oil past the valve guides. If it clears up, then you should be fine, but IF not, you might have to pull the engine and dig deeper.
Another thing to keep in mind, is that the muffler might have been holding some oil in it too, and that might be finally burning off.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Donnie strickland
Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2009
Posts: 2403
Location: Moody, AL
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:14 am Post subject: |
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What Bob said. The rings will need time to seat, so run it and keep an eye on things.
_________________
71 Elm Green FI A/T Squareback |
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Kjarahz
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2013
Posts: 44
Location: United States
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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Well everything is now good to go. Hooked up the thing that checked air/fuel mixture (I don't know the name) and let it run for a while after fixing the timing and it's happy. Put on about 15 miles so far. No smoke, black if you really gun it hard which I never do.
The question is should it take the ride 30 miles away round trip for surfing this weekend...
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Square One
Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2011
Posts: 184
Location: Anchorage, AK
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Tram wrote: |
One small example: there's that slight retard in #3 that Type 3s have built in. It's there for a reason.  |
Most Holy of Holies: Would thoust please enlighten us poor mortal cretins as to that "reason?"  
_________________
I like poetry, long walks on the beach and poking dead things with a stick.
'71 Squareback FI "Irving"
'74 Super Beetle A/S "Mr. Buggy" (named by my 16 yr old daughter when it was hers)
'77 SB Convertible (oops . . . sold!) |
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KTPhil
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34009
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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