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Message |
fuhq64
Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2010
Posts: 279
Location: Dayton
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 Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Tram wrote: |
| fuhq64 wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
You either have injector ground wires off or a trigger point issue- when you say you tested them, was that in the distributor with you turning the rotor?
Try adjusting your throttle switch per Bentley also.
Make sure your wires going to the trigger points are intact under the boot on the plug. |
It would seem that these wires were pulled loose when I put the ECU back in place...oops. It now starts, runs but I'm not sure how well yet being that's it's cold today & the shop is closed up. I'll report back with an update. And yes, I do know that the vacuum hose is missing  |
It's gonna run like crap unless that hose is in place. |
Yeah, I'm gonna replace all the vacuum hoses with new. I had time to eliminate the toggle switch on the fuel pump & run the wiring thru the fuel pump relay. It feels great being able to jump in the car & start the car like you're supposed to be able to. This thread is an invaluable tool.
I may have missed it, but is there anywhere to get the plug covers that shield the wires from the heat?
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69 Squareback
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22727
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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I have a bunch of the OE plasic covers- or you can just get insulated spade connectors at a local auto parts and use those.
Location: Dayton? As in oHIo? Home of John Boner? 
If so, ex- Columbus, Akron, Canton, Cleveland, Cincinnati- ite here.
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| Bryan67 wrote: |
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fuhq64
Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2010
Posts: 279
Location: Dayton
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Tram wrote: |
I have a bunch of the OE plasic covers- or you can just get insulated spade connectors at a local auto parts and use those.
Location: Dayton? As in oHIo? Home of John Boner?
If so, ex- Columbus, Akron, Canton, Cleveland, Cincinnati- ite here. |
Yup, that's my area. It's snowed here two nights ago 
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69 Squareback
Still a n00b
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22727
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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| fuhq64 wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
I have a bunch of the OE plasic covers- or you can just get insulated spade connectors at a local auto parts and use those.
Location: Dayton? As in oHIo? Home of John Boner?
If so, ex- Columbus, Akron, Canton, Cleveland, Cincinnati- ite here. |
Yup, that's my area. It's snowed here two nights ago |
Hint: Nobody moves to Ohio for the weather. 
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| Bryan67 wrote: |
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Infamousadam
Samba Member
Joined: August 09, 2011
Posts: 1
Location: Boyertown, PA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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Ok I'm new to the air cooled fuel injected. So recently I purchased a 72 squareback that was running but then sat for a few years. The engine turned over but didn't start. So I replaced the fuel pump which was shot along with the relay which was shot also. Drained the fuel put fresh in and also replaced the spark plugs and wires.
I try to start it ran the pump a few times and received nothing. Still turned over and didn't start. So I checked the pressure sensor and the vacuum line was off of it. I also unplugged the wires check to see if any corrosion and didn't see any. Now the car will not even turn over. I turn the key and I receive nothing.
Any suggestions? I think replace the sensor? Any other possibilities also or should replace anyways? |
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joey1320
Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2006
Posts: 2325
Location: Cleveland, OH
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Infamousadam wrote: |
Ok I'm new to the air cooled fuel injected. So recently I purchased a 72 squareback that was running but then sat for a few years. The engine turned over but didn't start. So I replaced the fuel pump which was shot along with the relay which was shot also. Drained the fuel put fresh in and also replaced the spark plugs and wires.
I try to start it ran the pump a few times and received nothing. Still turned over and didn't start. So I checked the pressure sensor and the vacuum line was off of it. I also unplugged the wires check to see if any corrosion and didn't see any. Now the car will not even turn over. I turn the key and I receive nothing.
Any suggestions? I think replace the sensor? Any other possibilities also or should replace anyways? |
Are you getting any signs of voltage? Lights work? Does the starter turn? If not, is it getting any voltage? If it does turn, are you getting any spark? You beed to check your fuel pressure and make sure you have between 28-31 psi. Are you getting that? If so, remove the injectors and see their spray pattern, are they all the same or similar?
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**1971 Super Project
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0 |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22727
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Infamousadam wrote: |
Ok I'm new to the air cooled fuel injected. So recently I purchased a 72 squareback that was running but then sat for a few years. The engine turned over but didn't start. So I replaced the fuel pump which was shot along with the relay which was shot also. Drained the fuel put fresh in and also replaced the spark plugs and wires.
I try to start it ran the pump a few times and received nothing. Still turned over and didn't start. So I checked the pressure sensor and the vacuum line was off of it. I also unplugged the wires check to see if any corrosion and didn't see any. Now the car will not even turn over. I turn the key and I receive nothing.
Any suggestions? I think replace the sensor? Any other possibilities also or should replace anyways? |
The small wire came off the starter. Look closely- there are two of them. One is for injection cold start, the other is from the switch to actuate the starter.
Don't automatically assume an injection issue.
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| Bryan67 wrote: |
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LDB90
Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2014
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:57 am Post subject: Fuel injection nitemare |
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| Hello all, I an new to the fourm and fairly new to vw. My buddy had a non running 73 squareback 1600 fi automatic i was going to bye from him. We work on the car for two weekends new points, condenser, cap, rotor, and the fuel pump was rebuilt when he first got the car. We could not get it to fire, i needed a car so i got an 86 jetta. Well i ended up with the 73 anyway willing and dealing. After geting the car home i had the engine running within a hour, not running good but it starts. The car has no throttle response even in park when but in gear iv tried all gears 1-3 and reverse the car will move under its own power but wont get over 5mph throttle to the floor and small hills forget about it. I am pretty good with engines in general but know nothing of this mystical vw fuel injection. My first thoughts would be vacuum leak , dirty-clogged fi system, timeing issue??? I replaced the fuel filter and the was a fuel line with a pretty bad leak would spray fuel when the car was running good bye fuel presser replaced the line and filter added some lucas fuel system cleaner the engine starts easyer now but still no power. I know both previous owners who are both good mechanics when it comes to american cars. My buddy got it it ran/drove good he did say it was a bit sluggish but if he let off the gas then got back on it it would pick up, he parked the car could not get it started again. He sent in the fuel pump had it rebuilt still nothing so the car sat for about a year until we started working on it. While he was changing the points i noticed several loose broken wires. One of the wires to the trigger point had broke, when i unplugged the connector another one broke trying to get the other two back in the right spot the third one came loose. The wireing in the engine bay is so old and brittle it just falls apart. Well all three wires to the trigger points are white so the just got but in the connector randomly, first queston what do the wires do? My understanding is that the trigger points tell the injectors when to fire, if the wires are in the wrong place would the injector fire out of order therefore causeing the car to run rough and have low power. Also two of the injectors have had new wires and connectors run to them, the other two have the original wires after pulling up the wire boots one injector had both wires hanging above it. Again both wires are white, why are all the broken wire white lol i would think the would be colored different one color power another ground ect. Does it matter whitch white wire goes to whitch terminal on the injectors and trigger points could the be my only problem. I plan on rewireing the whole enginge compartment of the car one wire at a time, but would like to get it running correctly first, why run new wires if they are hooked up wrong. Sorry about writing a whole book here guys but i want to explain whats going on the best i can. I love both my jetta and the squerback wish it was a four speed but for what i got her for cant complain to much, had a blast going down the road after i got her running even at 5mph cant wait to get her going good. Any help, ideas, advice are greatly appreciated. I have looked all over and just cant seem to find a whole lot of info on these early fi system. I will try to get some pics of it up soon. Thanks all great site |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22422
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:33 am Post subject: Re: Fuel injection nitemare |
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| LDB90 wrote: |
| Hello all, I an new to the fourm and fairly new to vw. My buddy had a non running 73 squareback 1600 fi automatic i was going to bye from him. We work on the car for two weekends new points, condenser, cap, rotor, and the fuel pump was rebuilt when he first got the car. We could not get it to fire, i needed a car so i got an 86 jetta. Well i ended up with the 73 anyway willing and dealing. After geting the car home i had the engine running within a hour, not running good but it starts. The car has no throttle response even in park when but in gear iv tried all gears 1-3 and reverse the car will move under its own power but wont get over 5mph throttle to the floor and small hills forget about it. I am pretty good with engines in general but know nothing of this mystical vw fuel injection. My first thoughts would be vacuum leak , dirty-clogged fi system, timeing issue??? I replaced the fuel filter and the was a fuel line with a pretty bad leak would spray fuel when the car was running good bye fuel presser replaced the line and filter added some lucas fuel system cleaner the engine starts easyer now but still no power. I know both previous owners who are both good mechanics when it comes to american cars. My buddy got it it ran/drove good he did say it was a bit sluggish but if he let off the gas then got back on it it would pick up, he parked the car could not get it started again. He sent in the fuel pump had it rebuilt still nothing so the car sat for about a year until we started working on it. While he was changing the points i noticed several loose broken wires. One of the wires to the trigger point had broke, when i unplugged the connector another one broke trying to get the other two back in the right spot the third one came loose. The wireing in the engine bay is so old and brittle it just falls apart. Well all three wires to the trigger points are white so the just got but in the connector randomly, first queston what do the wires do? My understanding is that the trigger points tell the injectors when to fire, if the wires are in the wrong place would the injector fire out of order therefore causeing the car to run rough and have low power. Also two of the injectors have had new wires and connectors run to them, the other two have the original wires after pulling up the wire boots one injector had both wires hanging above it. Again both wires are white, why are all the broken wire white lol i would think the would be colored different one color power another ground ect. Does it matter whitch white wire goes to whitch terminal on the injectors and trigger points could the be my only problem. I plan on rewireing the whole enginge compartment of the car one wire at a time, but would like to get it running correctly first, why run new wires if they are hooked up wrong. Sorry about writing a whole book here guys but i want to explain whats going on the best i can. I love both my jetta and the squerback wish it was a four speed but for what i got her for cant complain to much, had a blast going down the road after i got her running even at 5mph cant wait to get her going good. Any help, ideas, advice are greatly appreciated. I have looked all over and just cant seem to find a whole lot of info on these early fi system. I will try to get some pics of it up soon. Thanks all great site |
You might want to have a look at these 2 links.
http://classicvw.org/gallery2/v/Fuel-Injection-Manual/
http://members.rennlist.com/pbanders/djetparts.htm
The 2nd one, about 1/2 way down, covers testing the FI harness thru the ECU plug. It gives the resistances you're looking for, along with what does what from the ECU. It's for the Porsche 914, but the FI system is very close to what the 70 to 73 type 3s use.
I hope this helps.
_________________
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71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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ziconylo
Samba Member
Joined: November 20, 2006
Posts: 88
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2014 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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hi all,
do you have a clue what cause my engine dies out after 20km ride at idle?
when cold run petfect great power and even behaviour.
then aftef it gets to working temperature it dies out at idle , for example when staing at lights. in my opinion air is not enough at mixture.
regards
jakub |
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Squarebug
Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2010
Posts: 1
Location: Graham, WA
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2014 6:37 pm Post subject: 73 Square FI Saved! |
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Hey Tram & the rest of the Type 3 Gurus -
Just wanted to take a moment to Thank All Of You who post such great info about the FI system on our beloved squarebacks!!
Thanks to all of you we decided to go against many local recommendations to pull out the FI and put in dual carbs. After installing a new engine in our baby, a bit of trial and error, and a lot of reading posts in this forum, I'm proud to say our 73 is running great!!  She's about done mechanically, now we just have to do the pretty stuff! But good weather is short (You know how it is in Seattle, blink and summer is gone!)... so we're going to drive her for the next few months and enjoy it. Taking her down to Woodburn at the end of the month... maybe we'll meet a few of you there!!
SquareBug
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'74 Super Beetle
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22727
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2014 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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| ziconylo wrote: |
hi all,
do you have a clue what cause my engine dies out after 20km ride at idle?
when cold run petfect great power and even behaviour.
then aftef it gets to working temperature it dies out at idle , for example when staing at lights. in my opinion air is not enough at mixture.
regards
jakub |
What year?
_________________
Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22727
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2014 6:51 pm Post subject: Re: 73 Square FI Saved! |
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| Squarebug wrote: |
Hey Tram & the rest of the Type 3 Gurus -
Just wanted to take a moment to Thank All Of You who post such great info about the FI system on our beloved squarebacks!!
Thanks to all of you we decided to go against many local recommendations to pull out the FI and put in dual carbs. After installing a new engine in our baby, a bit of trial and error, and a lot of reading posts in this forum, I'm proud to say our 73 is running great!! She's about done mechanically, now we just have to do the pretty stuff! But good weather is short (You know how it is in Seattle, blink and summer is gone!)... so we're going to drive her for the next few months and enjoy it. Taking her down to Woodburn at the end of the month... maybe we'll meet a few of you there!!
SquareBug |
Glad to see another one saved! 
_________________
Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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ziconylo
Samba Member
Joined: November 20, 2006
Posts: 88
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2014 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Tram wrote: |
| ziconylo wrote: |
hi all,
do you have a clue what cause my engine dies out after 20km ride at idle?
when cold run petfect great power and even behaviour.
then aftef it gets to working temperature it dies out at idle , for example when staing at lights. in my opinion air is not enough at mixture.
regards
jakub |
What year? |
68, a ecu. now use b ecu. no cold start. it must be that sensor sent info cause ery rich or lean mixture. check cyl head sensor on cold and resistance is good. |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22727
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2014 12:08 am Post subject: |
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| ziconylo wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
| ziconylo wrote: |
hi all,
do you have a clue what cause my engine dies out after 20km ride at idle?
when cold run petfect great power and even behaviour.
then aftef it gets to working temperature it dies out at idle , for example when staing at lights. in my opinion air is not enough at mixture.
regards
jakub |
What year? |
68, a ecu. now use b ecu. no cold start. it must be that sensor sent info cause ery rich or lean mixture. check cyl head sensor on cold and resistance is good. |
How is fuel pressure? If fuel pressure is OK (1,9 atu or 28 PSI), then:
Try running it with temp sensor 1 in the engine case disconnected and see if that makes a difference.
_________________
Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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Mike Fisher
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 17970
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2014 5:50 am Post subject: Re: 73 Square FI Saved! |
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| Squarebug wrote: |
Hey Tram & the rest of the Type 3 Gurus -
Just wanted to take a moment to Thank All Of You who post such great info about the FI system on our beloved squarebacks!!
Thanks to all of you we decided to go against many local recommendations to pull out the FI and put in dual carbs. After installing a new engine in our baby, a bit of trial and error, and a lot of reading posts in this forum, I'm proud to say our 73 is running great!! She's about done mechanically, now we just have to do the pretty stuff! But good weather is short (You know how it is in Seattle, blink and summer is gone!)... so we're going to drive her for the next few months and enjoy it. Taking her down to Woodburn at the end of the month... maybe we'll meet a few of you there!!
SquareBug |
We had a Row of squares,notches & fastys last year so be sure to park in our Row! Bring your hats,chairs & cash to spend in the Parts Swap.
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69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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ziconylo
Samba Member
Joined: November 20, 2006
Posts: 88
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2014 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Tram wrote: |
| ziconylo wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
| ziconylo wrote: |
hi all,
do you have a clue what cause my engine dies out after 20km ride at idle?
when cold run petfect great power and even behaviour.
then aftef it gets to working temperature it dies out at idle , for example when staing at lights. in my opinion air is not enough at mixture.
regards
jakub |
What year? |
68, a ecu. now use b ecu. no cold start. it must be that sensor sent info cause ery rich or lean mixture. check cyl head sensor on cold and resistance is good. |
How is fuel pressure? If fuel pressure is OK (1,9 atu or 28 PSI), then:
Try running it with temp sensor 1 in the engine case disconnected and see if that makes a difference. |
PSI is perfect 28.
Temp sensor II 0280130001 keeps spec for resistance - 300 ohms at cold -it goes to 80ohms at 90celcius.
So i dont know what would it change if i disconnect it after warmup - what is plan next?
Rennlist.com writes this sensor has little effect of the running of the system |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22727
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2014 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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| ziconylo wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
| ziconylo wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
| ziconylo wrote: |
hi all,
do you have a clue what cause my engine dies out after 20km ride at idle?
when cold run petfect great power and even behaviour.
then aftef it gets to working temperature it dies out at idle , for example when staing at lights. in my opinion air is not enough at mixture.
regards
jakub |
What year? |
68, a ecu. now use b ecu. no cold start. it must be that sensor sent info cause ery rich or lean mixture. check cyl head sensor on cold and resistance is good. |
How is fuel pressure? If fuel pressure is OK (1,9 atu or 28 PSI), then:
Try running it with temp sensor 1 in the engine case disconnected and see if that makes a difference. |
PSI is perfect 28.
Temp sensor II 0280130001 keeps spec for resistance - 300 ohms at cold -it goes to 80ohms at 90celcius.
So i dont know what would it change if i disconnect it after warmup - what is plan next?
Rennlist.com writes this sensor has little effect of the running of the system |
Sometimes disconnecting TS1 in the block makes it straighten up and run right. Try it. If it makes no difference that would at least eliminate it as a factor.
What is your idle speed at operating temperature in neutral?
_________________
Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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ziconylo
Samba Member
Joined: November 20, 2006
Posts: 88
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2014 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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|
| Tram wrote: |
| ziconylo wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
| ziconylo wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
| ziconylo wrote: |
hi all,
do you have a clue what cause my engine dies out after 20km ride at idle?
when cold run petfect great power and even behaviour.
then aftef it gets to working temperature it dies out at idle , for example when staing at lights. in my opinion air is not enough at mixture.
regards
jakub |
What year? |
68, a ecu. now use b ecu. no cold start. it must be that sensor sent info cause ery rich or lean mixture. check cyl head sensor on cold and resistance is good. |
How is fuel pressure? If fuel pressure is OK (1,9 atu or 28 PSI), then:
Try running it with temp sensor 1 in the engine case disconnected and see if that makes a difference. |
PSI is perfect 28.
Temp sensor II 0280130001 keeps spec for resistance - 300 ohms at cold -it goes to 80ohms at 90celcius.
So i dont know what would it change if i disconnect it after warmup - what is plan next?
Rennlist.com writes this sensor has little effect of the running of the system |
Sometimes disconnecting TS1 in the block makes it straighten up and run right. Try it. If it makes no difference that would at least eliminate it as a factor.
What is your idle speed at operating temperature in neutral? |
Ok Tram will check.
I agree that this kind of behaviour was when once I had one broken cable continuity but I spent lately some time to refurbish my wiring harness. After that happened it was first thing i check if there is broken cable - but not there wasnt. Another think is that this temp sensor (ports) are always dirtyin engine oil. Maybe it gets somehow from down of the sensor.
regarding idle
I had one MPS original without epoxy and I set a mixture on warm. Then engine cool down, run perfect and slowly loose this entry power . But when on idle on light it start to die and switch off. RPMS around 850.
With MPS fromthe sampa with epoxy engine is waving - not stable rpms. |
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ziconylo
Samba Member
Joined: November 20, 2006
Posts: 88
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 4:06 am Post subject: |
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so situation is as follows
i was driving on mps with epoxy on it so car didnt died out on idle when warm but was sluggish. when i do accelerate there is a gap (0.5 sec) when engine reacts. i have disconned crankcase temp sensor and the car accelerates perfectly and no gap is observed. after 10 min of waiting car cannot start with temp sensor out. i need to connect temp sensor and then its ok.
i have also check throttle valve switch 311906111b. i have disconneted it or change angles and no reaction to gap while accelerating. does it mean its faulty? how to check this part.
i dont have oil temp sensor so dont want to run rich too long.
i have just ordered afr gauge plus sensor and want to install oil temp sensor in order to monitor behaviour. but thats in june.
so question for now what if temp sens disconnecting helps for slugishness and throttle valveswitch does not react to disconnecting or angle set. |
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