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MonT3
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1988
Location: South Dakota
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 Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting thing happened after dinner. I had mentioned I just needed to put the shell on the pan to check the fit in order to move forward on the square. So the wife, grandma (No BS) and my oldest daughter all came outside and they took the front end while I stood in the engine bay and worked the rear end. Well, the shell is on the pan and the extended lip is preventing the shell from fully sitting on the rocker. I don't have any pics of it at the moment but in the AM, I'll get a couple of shots before I head off to work.
I wasn't able to look it all over as it was dark. I intend on getting up early to look it all over and see what can be done to get the shell to sit flat. Bothered by it but I expected something. Somewhat of a setback and I haven't seen the mounting holes yet... Guess it's all part of the journey.
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22410
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:25 am Post subject: |
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| MonT3 wrote: |
| Interesting thing happened after dinner. I had mentioned I just needed to put the shell on the pan to check the fit in order to move forward on the square. So the wife, grandma (No BS) and my oldest daughter all came outside and they took the front end while I stood in the engine bay and worked the rear end. Well, the shell is on the pan and the extended lip is preventing the shell from fully sitting on the rocker. I don't have any pics of it at the moment but in the AM, I'll get a couple of shots before I head off to work. |
Depending on where it's "hanging up", you might need a mechanical jack to "spread" that area out. I think I remember you saying you were going to remove the bracing you had inside. If you did that, then you'll definitely need to spread it out. The body normally fits pretty tight to the sides of the pan, with about an 1/8th inch to spare on both sides. Sop keep that in mind while you're looking it over in the daylight.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
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MonT3
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1988
Location: South Dakota
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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This evening I was able to get a closer look at what's going on with my fit test. As mentioned, the lip is holding shell from sitting flat. On top of that the front corner metal that normally extends in front of the pan is also doing the same thing. I'm going to remove the pan and push these areas out a little and try to fit it again. if that does do the trick, I think a little trimming with a flap disk may solve the problem.
Bobnotch, the edges are on top of each other. The back humps portion mounting holes line up but it looks like I may need to extend the hole just a tad. I can't speak for the others as the shell isn't flat on the pan so that'll have to wait. Here are some pics...
These extensions on the lower lip is what's holding up the pan.
Option 1 - expand the bottom to fit the shell over the pan
Option 2 - bend the lips over some to get the pan to fit and straighten accordingly
Option 3 - Grind a little off the pans lip and fit the pan until it sits correctly
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MonT3
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Clatter
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 7537
Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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On your list of options,
Maybe a little of each is in order?
There's also Rule #721:
"Always suspect the aftermarket parts first"
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Clatter
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 7537
Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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Looking at it again,
Just need to climb inside it,
and start kicking outwards in each direction.
Suddenly, "Clung!" it will just snap into it's correct location!
It looks so close...!
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MonT3
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1988
Location: South Dakota
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:55 am Post subject: |
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Clatter, it’s really close. That’s why I think a little trimming could solve my issue as well as expanding the lower portion as Bobnotch had mentioned earlier. Just for giggles, yesterday evening I tried to expand the lower portion as I braced my back on one side and pushed on the other with my legs and no budging. That’s when I started looking for other options. I’m still planning on using some sort of jack is possible. One thing I did notice is the driver’s side which is the side that’s hung more, has the center portion of the lip somewhat bowed inward. When I pull the shell off, I want to straighten that out and re-fit the pan. I also want to bend outwards the corner foot well pieces that normally extend beyond/below the pan. The passenger side if hung on the pan lip. I think that may go away if I can get the pan to sit flat. But until I get that I won’t know. Then the fun will begin as I see how well or miserably I set up my mounting holes. Hopefully I won’t have to clearance too much to achieve success there. More to follow…
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MonT3
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Clatter
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 7537
Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:33 am Post subject: |
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I'm about to fit the body shell on the pan backbone and test-fit the new pans.
And,
Dag,
That's a lot of heavy work to just pull it back off again and move it away.
I had myself all talked out of doing it,
but,
Seeing what you have here,
Guess it could be worth it.
Thanks for reminding me why we test-fit and test-fit again...
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22410
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:49 am Post subject: |
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| MonT3 wrote: |
This evening I was able to get a closer look at what's going on with my fit test. As mentioned, the lip is holding shell from sitting flat. On top of that the front corner metal that normally extends in front of the pan is also doing the same thing. I'm going to remove the pan and push these areas out a little and try to fit it again. if that does do the trick, I think a little trimming with a flap disk may solve the problem.
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Going off this pic, I'd say you've got the front "toe" panel a liitle too far back. If you can, cut a couple of the lower tack welds loose, and then push it forward a little. I only say that has you've still got about 1/2 of those holes at the rear covered, and it shows that the body needs to go rearward.
This is kind of why I suggested doing several test fittings to the pan, before you get carried away with the welder. It's a lot easier to cut several tack welds, rather than cutting a complete weld. Besides, your body hole locations are from the rear, going forward if I remember right (since the front was going to get some surgery).
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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MonT3
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1988
Location: South Dakota
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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I got the shell pulled back off. I noticed the driver's side lip does have a bow in it. I'll get that deal with and will look at alleviating some spot welds to move the front forward as well. I put a few on there for fear the weight of the shell would cause some issues for it when it was placed on the pan. I'm hoping this weekend I can get the answers I need on the mounting holes.
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MonT3
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22410
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:10 am Post subject: |
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| MonT3 wrote: |
| I got the shell pulled back off. I noticed the driver's side lip does have a bow in it. I'll get that deal with and will look at alleviating some spot welds to move the front forward as well. I put a few on there for fear the weight of the shell would cause some issues for it when it was placed on the pan. I'm hoping this weekend I can get the answers I need on the mounting holes. |
Look at where the paint might be scratched on the sides, as that'll tell you what might be holding you there. Up front, I'd cut some tacks loose, and wait until I re-set the body in place and toss a couple of bolts in to kind of hold it (put the rear bolts in to locate that end first, then add some to the front). Then maybe add a couple of shims behind that front toe panel (to create a gap between the body and pan), and re-tack it in place. What you're trying to do, is put the gaps back in place from cutting (why you're short). I only say that, as you're about 3/16ths of an inch short in the rear (going off your pic above), and the front still needed a little more before it would drop in place.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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MonT3
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1988
Location: South Dakota
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:59 am Post subject: |
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Took a closer look at the pan and lower lip of the shell. The lip is bent inward some and the marks on the pan match up. I'm going to cut free some spot welds on the base of the foot well and some that run upward. That should free up the front end to be moved into position the time I drop the shell on the pan again.
Bob, I'm going to bolt the shell in rear and front then see what lines up and what needs to be cleared. Hopefully not much.
Haven't done anything else except stare at it some more while having a few beers. Especially the front pillars. The inner skin pieces to it really need to be replaced. My buddy is trying to talk me into cutting all the pillars low and grafting the entire late roof with sunroof, pillars and all. Told him "Nah, that's crazy". Since I started this project my main goal was to keep my cutting to a minimum if possible but with these cars and their age and where they came from, that's a little wishful thinking. Still on the fence with the sunroof project as I want to finish what I've begun with the lower portion of the cars shell. Rained hard last night with some really cool lightning displays so I was glad I left my pan and shell inside.
Kid's got a 3 on 3 basketball tourney today so the square will wait till I get back.
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MonT3
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22410
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:46 am Post subject: |
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| MonT3 wrote: |
Took a closer look at the pan and lower lip of the shell. The lip is bent inward some and the marks on the pan match up. I'm going to cut free some spot welds on the base of the foot well and some that run upward. That should free up the front end to be moved into position the time I drop the shell on the pan again.
Bob, I'm going to bolt the shell in rear and front then see what lines up and what needs to be cleared. Hopefully not much.
Haven't done anything else except stare at it some more while having a few beers. Especially the front pillars. The inner skin pieces to it really need to be replaced. My buddy is trying to talk me into cutting all the pillars low and grafting the entire late roof with sunroof, pillars and all. Told him "Nah, that's crazy". Since I started this project my main goal was to keep my cutting to a minimum if possible but with these cars and their age and where they came from, that's a little wishful thinking. Still on the fence with the sunroof project as I want to finish what I've begun with the lower portion of the cars shell. Rained hard last night with some really cool lightning displays so I was glad I left my pan and shell inside.
Kid's got a 3 on 3 basketball tourney today so the square will wait till I get back. |
Yeah, I think I'd finish what I started, before going much further. I only say that as you'll be opening a nuther can of worms to deal with. Besides, IF you're going to graft it in, I'd do it like ISP did to KTPhil's Fastback.
I think you've got the right idea on how to get everything back in alignment. Get the rear in place, and adjust the front to fit.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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MonT3
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1988
Location: South Dakota
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| Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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Yesterday I was able to sort out the issue with my shell not fitting flat on the pan. The replacement corner piece I had put in seems to have been put in at a very slight angle but enough to cause me some ass-pain in fitting around that rear corner. So to ensure it fit properly, I cut the rail that goes over the pan piece and bolted that piece to the pan. I then had the wifey and oldest help pick up the shell and place it on the pan...
What a difference that made. The back end lines up now and with that, I bolted that rail piece in separately. I began to check the rocker mounting holes and it looks like I have a little clearancing to do. the front bolts line up now as well now that I can move the front foot well (thanks Bobnotch). Tomorrow I'll expand the holes a bit and then look to place the shell back on Thursday and begin bolting it all back together. Friday and the remainder of the weekend, I close the pieces in where they need to be, tack as well as pull the shell back off and begin to close the welds around the rockers and front foot well. I'm really looking forward to all of this.
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MonT3
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MonT3
Samba Member
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Posts: 1988
Location: South Dakota
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2014 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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One bolt on the frame head is causing me some ass-pain. I've been able to work other mounting points as I've had to clearance a few to get the rockers bolted up. Two of the mounting washers had to be trimmed to get the bolts to fit. I expected something like this to happen but that one M8 bolt is got me grinding my teeth!! I've decided to step back from it and tackle it tomorrow AM so I can start tacking the pieces back together in hopes of closing everything to get the shell to the blaster.
Important lesson learned for any person following along and is new to this... I've replaced about 85% of the OG metal on the bottom portion of the shell, mainly due to rust and rot. If you're going to go thru such a process, mock it on the pan before tacking on the shell. Make sure it all fits. I now believe I should've mocked this out before spraying the raptor on and getting all of it in line before moving forward. That way if any holes weren't aligned, you can get the pan sorted out with the holes as well as getting the bottom lined up. Rookie move on my behalf. How you go about tacking that bottom piece to the shell after it's all together I leave to your imagination... I'm having a beer to reflect, have a good evening all.
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MonT3
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22410
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2014 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| MonT3 wrote: |
Important lesson learned for any person following along and is new to this... I've replaced about 85% of the OG metal on the bottom portion of the shell, mainly due to rust and rot. If you're going to go thru such a process, mock it on the pan before tacking on the shell. Make sure it all fits. I now believe I should've mocked this out before spraying the raptor on and getting all of it in line before moving forward. That way if any holes weren't aligned, you can get the pan sorted out with the holes as well as getting the bottom lined up. Rookie move on my behalf. How you go about tacking that bottom piece to the shell after it's all together I leave to your imagination... I'm having a beer to reflect, have a good evening all. |
I suggested this to you several times, knowing that it's very easy to get something off and not catch it until later.
I also recommend having a couple of M8x1.25 taps around, in case you need to chase any of the body to pan bolt holes. An M10x1.5 comes in handy for the larger bolt holes in the body/pan.
Like I suggest to Clatter, test fit, test fit, test fit. It can really make a difference in how things go together. 
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
|
|
| Back to top |
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MonT3
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1988
Location: South Dakota
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 8:19 am Post subject: |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
| MonT3 wrote: |
Important lesson learned for any person following along and is new to this... I've replaced about 85% of the OG metal on the bottom portion of the shell, mainly due to rust and rot. If you're going to go thru such a process, mock it on the pan before tacking on the shell. Make sure it all fits. I now believe I should've mocked this out before spraying the raptor on and getting all of it in line before moving forward. That way if any holes weren't aligned, you can get the pan sorted out with the holes as well as getting the bottom lined up. Rookie move on my behalf. How you go about tacking that bottom piece to the shell after it's all together I leave to your imagination... I'm having a beer to reflect, have a good evening all. |
I suggested this to you several times, knowing that it's very easy to get something off and not catch it until later.
I also recommend having a couple of M8x1.25 taps around, in case you need to chase any of the body to pan bolt holes. An M10x1.5 comes in handy for the larger bolt holes in the body/pan.
Like I suggest to Clatter, test fit, test fit, test fit. It can really make a difference in how things go together. |
Bob, You're right. You did make these recommendations  . I'm pulling the tap out this AM to make sure the threads aren't obstructed and see what's holding it up. Had I not taken your recommendation to loosen the front foot well, it would have been worse. More to follow...
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MonT3
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Clatter
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Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 7537
Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 9:43 am Post subject: |
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Test-fit, test-fit, test-fit... And again...
Weld and cut and grind and trim..
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MonT3
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Posts: 1988
Location: South Dakota
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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The one bolt hole from the front foot well had something stopping the threading of the bolt  . Tapped it out and the pan is now bolted to the shell!!! Now to tack the pieces in, then remove the bolts, pull the shell and close the welds! Progress!!! I don't feel too bad now That I've gotten over this obstacle but I could've been over it a couple of weeks ago.
Clatter, I did fits but mainly to check the hole clearances. This test fit (All bolts in) was a PITA - another lesson learned. Got some welding and grinding to do before the next step...A pillars and front window area repair.
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MonT3
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MonT3
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bad1916
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Joined: November 14, 2010
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Location: Camarillo ca
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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Well deserved break! I'm enjoying your thread and the work going into it. Keep at it.
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