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ckissick Samba Member
Joined: August 22, 2006 Posts: 498 Location: Bay Area
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Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:58 am Post subject: On the value of splits |
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My father, and then I, have had our '50 split since the '80s. It's probably worth about $30K. Back in the '80s, it was worth about $20K. The point is, the values on splits seem to increase very gradually.
Unlike these:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1647762
$225K? OK, the guy can ask for whatever he dreams of, but it probably is just about the nicest 23 window on the planet, and one sold for over $200K at auction a couple of years ago. So, he's not actually that far out of line. Even so, I have to laugh.
Split window beetles are the holy grail of beetles. And more rare than 21 or 23 window buses, based on my own sightings. I never see another split on the road. So, why are the values of splits relatively stagnant? Is there some secret marketing guru hyping the buses? Should we find him and hire him to drive up the prices on our splits? What's up? _________________ Charlie
1950 Beetle
1983 Westfalia
1989 syncro Tristar
1966 Porsche 912
1989 Beck Spyder
2007 GTI Fahrenheit |
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joe56vw Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2004 Posts: 3202 Location: Olympia wa
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Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:29 am Post subject: Re: On the value of splits |
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ckissick wrote: |
Unlike these:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1647762
$225K? OK, the guy can ask for whatever he dreams of, but it probably is just about the nicest 23 window on the planet, and one sold for over $200K at auction a couple of years ago. So, he's not actually that far out of line. Even so, I have to laugh.
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I can't answer your split bug question but I can tell you that the bus in the classifieds is a very rare combo of year, model, and color plus it is probably one of the very few that is even close to being period correct
those auction buses that sold for big money were not even close to correct and sold for about 3 times their actual valve _________________ '60 15 window walkthrough
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=559931&highlight=
why is there no sarcasism button on here? |
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Blue Baron VW Aficionado
Joined: June 16, 2006 Posts: 23760 Location: Southeast USA
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Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:32 am Post subject: |
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Boiled down to its simplest explanation, split window Beetles are still a real VW cultist thing, whereas the VW bus has burst on the general collector's market in a big way. Big time car collectors now want one in their collection. _________________ We are striving for perfection, to make our cars run forever, if possible.
Heinz Nordhoff |
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ckissick Samba Member
Joined: August 22, 2006 Posts: 498 Location: Bay Area
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Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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Blue Baron wrote: |
Boiled down to its simplest explanation, split window Beetles are still a real VW cultist thing, whereas the VW bus has burst on the general collector's market in a big way. Big time car collectors now want one in their collection. |
Exactly. I'd just like to know why. This question could be asked of other cars, as well. How does a car burst onto the general car collector's market in the first place? I don't know if there is an answer. It just happens. _________________ Charlie
1950 Beetle
1983 Westfalia
1989 syncro Tristar
1966 Porsche 912
1989 Beck Spyder
2007 GTI Fahrenheit |
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Mr. OGPaint Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2010 Posts: 821 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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The easiest answer as to why Samba buses go for so much $$$ compared to split beetles, supply and DEMAND. The demand on 21/23 windows is thru the roof, they are now considered iconic to car people of all types. Drive an old bus around, lots of people stop ask you about samba buses....drive an old beetle, no one asks about split window beetles. The 21/23 buses standout from other buses to even average people, split windows beetle only standout to a few knowledgable folks.
Also, split wdo beetles are rare in North America, but not so much worldwide. Example, in 1952 only 200 or 300 splits were officially imported to the US but worldwide production was about 106,000 cars (mostly Europe) They will never be considered that rare
I love my split beetle, but also love buses. Personally, I can't wait for the bus price bubble to burst so I can finally reacquire a Barndoor Kombi, but it has made the money I've spent on early Ovals and Splits seem almost reasonable |
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buck Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2004 Posts: 393
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Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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Even if the bus price bubble bursts I don't see barndoor prices going down because they are much more rare than buses made after 55. Hell there are way less barndoors in existence than there are split bugs the value is there I don't see it going anywhere.
Looking back at old vintage club newsletters splits went all day for anywhere from 2- 8 tops it seems, same with barndoors , and deluxes. Not projects but nice drivers. I think even 8 is on the high side for back then going from my memory. Seemed like you could scrore nice drivers all day long for under 5k.
times have changed the old stuff is getting harder and harder to find. I'd love to find a split yet.. not for what people want online though. They are still out there. |
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D. Haviland Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 536 Location: Burlington, Vermont
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Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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With the recent overall acceptance and changes in marijuana laws, You're just going to see more and more people wanting busses . So don't expect prices to go down anytime soon. |
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joel55bug Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2005 Posts: 297 Location: Texas
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Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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Ultramoron wrote: |
The easiest answer as to why Samba buses go for so much $$$ compared to split beetles, supply and DEMAND. The demand on 21/23 windows is thru the roof, they are now considered iconic to car people of all types. Drive an old bus around, lots of people stop ask you about samba buses....drive an old beetle, no one asks about split window beetles. The 21/23 buses standout from other buses to even average people, split windows beetle only standout to a few knowledgable folks.
Also, split wdo beetles are rare in North America, but not so much worldwide. Example, in 1952 only 200 or 300 splits were officially imported to the US but worldwide production was about 106,000 cars (mostly Europe) They will never be considered that rare
I love my split beetle, but also love buses. Personally, I can't wait for the bus price bubble to burst so I can finally reacquire a Barndoor Kombi, but it has made the money I've spent on early Ovals and Splits seem almost reasonable |
Exactly, I have a stock '52 standard that was imported from Berlin and I have a '67 13 window deluxe and without a doubt the bus draws way more attention and it's not even a samba. Down the street from my house every Saturday night is an open car show/shine and on occasion I roll down there in one of the Vdubs, the bus draws crowds for photos and people always offer to buy it, as for the split nobody even cares and the car shines and blings, the bus is dull OG paint with mix/match interior pieces. |
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Lind Samba Member
Joined: November 06, 2000 Posts: 9905 Location: idaho
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Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:28 am Post subject: |
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I always like to think of value of cars on their cool and functional value and then compare that to what everyone else seems to think they are worth (i.e. market value). Take advantage of this and buy more split bugs. Us in the split bus community are not so lucky. Some of you old school beetle folks can take advantage of this by selling that old bus you have been using as a parts shed and buy a split beetle with the proceeds.
I also think that it is funny how many old school people who were collecting ovals and splits in the '80s have finally figured out you can fit more fun in a bus. _________________ .
Wanted:
Idaho VW license plate frames or other dealership items.
VWoA literature and early dealership or distributor literature/pictures/information
. |
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sgmalt46 Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2005 Posts: 1293 Location: south san francisco
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Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:54 am Post subject: |
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same here my 55 23 window and my 64 crew cab (daily driver ) draw more attention than my 46 beetle ! crazy. people that are paying attention can see the 46 is OLD ! all black no chrome ect.. and do trip out sometimes . most probably just think it's an old bug painted all black. banana bumper splits are way more rare than post march 55 23-21 windows. just one of those things? i've been around for a while. 51 years. and around here i never seen a split beetle. and only remember one barn door in the area . pile of shit panel in the 80's. and a 54 single cab in a wrecking yard. that someones brother that runs this site got. all in all they made way more beetles than buses. i get more of a chub driving my buses over my beetles. my 55 3 fold . rarely gets on the road. might be the fact i have too many cars. _________________ 55 deluxe 23 window bus
64 crew cab
55 rag top beetle
66 beetle
71 square back (sold) ! good luck with it Henry!
46 beetle 552nd royal army service corps CCG |
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rick hicks Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2004 Posts: 22
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Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:09 am Post subject: |
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Then, why is there such a huge price difference in parts? Seems to me split beetle parts are through the roof, whereas most bus stuff is reasonable.... |
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EverettB Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000 Posts: 69734 Location: Phoenix Metro
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Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:32 am Post subject: |
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rick hicks wrote: |
Then, why is there such a huge price difference in parts? Seems to me split beetle parts are through the roof, whereas most bus stuff is reasonable.... |
To compare Split Bug parts you have to compare them to the pre-1955 Barndoor Bus parts.
Barndoor Bus parts are more expensive than later Bus parts in most cases.
For instance, I sold a Barndoor decklid handle for around $225.
I think that is about the same as a Split Bug handle (or less).
A later Bus rear hatch handle (basically same thing as a Barndoor decklid handle) is $40-$50. _________________ How to Post Photos
Everett Barnes - [email protected] | My wanted ads
"Water is the only drink for a wise man" | "Communication prevents complaints"
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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Erik G Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002 Posts: 13247 Location: Tejas!
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Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 11:24 am Post subject: |
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Lind wrote: |
I always like to think of value of cars on their cool and functional value and then compare that to what everyone else seems to think they are worth (i.e. market value). Take advantage of this and buy more split bugs. Us in the split bus community are not so lucky. Some of you old school beetle folks can take advantage of this by selling that old bus you have been using as a parts shed and buy a split beetle with the proceeds.
I also think that it is funny how many old school people who were collecting ovals and splits in the '80s have finally figured out you can fit more fun in a bus. |
Thats really what I think is driving it. Functional value. Not functional value in a 225K bus, but functuional value in the average bus. Wife, GirlFriend, Kids, Dogs, Friends, Home Depot, Christmas Tree, Moving, etc. It all adds up. Do that in a bus of any vintage. Now try doing that in a beetle of any vintage...
From that base level of understanding, now find the hard to find models, colors, options, etc, and bring it to concourse quality. There is no doubt that money is being made on that bus, but a man has to be paid for his time and effort, including the years of research one does to be able to tackle those kinds of restorations he's known for. Not my cup of tea, but someone is getting one of if not the the best mouse grey 23 on the planet |
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coolparts Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2004 Posts: 194
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Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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Supply and demand. That what makes it worth what you can get. 57 chevy verts sell for twice what a nomad goes for.
They made 45k verts and only 5k nomands.
Supply and demand.
The 60's hippies drove buses not split windows. Thats what they want & have the money to spend . |
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ZENVWDRIVER Samba Member
Joined: November 07, 2008 Posts: 3340 Location: N.E. Oklahoma
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:49 pm Post subject: 80s |
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I don't know about 20 Gs back in the 80s...I've owned 5 splits over the years...1950 11G with running 25 horse for $250.00 in 1976...1950 standard on a 1972 pan in 1978, running for $400...1949 not running in the late 70s for $100...1952 Zwitter with running 25 horse for $2500 in 1992 ...and a 1952 with crotch coolers with running 36 horse for two grand in 1995...nothing was close to 20K.
Currently a 1954 bug for $1500 in 2011,. not running.
The first 4 were in NJ and the early '52 and the '54 in Oklahoma.
One can still get a running split for less than 30K.
...still, a great investment. _________________ 5/50, pastel green 11G - SOLD
8/50, gray 11A Beetle
6/52, pastel green 11C - SOLD
11/4/52, black Zwitter - SOLD to my little bro.
1954 Porsche, pre A, with VW 36 horse- SOLD
1/54, black 11C Beetle - TRADED
2/55 Iceland green Beetle, on a 1965 pan
3/55 113 Beetle, stratos silver
1955 Messerschmitt KR175 - SOLD, sadly
1960 single cab
1962 SO33, with SO 42 interior
9/63 Pacific blue, Ghia
'87 Toyota MR2
'02 WestFORDia E-150, GAVE TO OUR SON
All super-heroes, wear a MASK |
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Blue Baron VW Aficionado
Joined: June 16, 2006 Posts: 23760 Location: Southeast USA
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Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:36 am Post subject: |
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And let's not forget the impact our British friends have had on bus values. The giddy fanaticism of the Brits also helped push the bus bubble. Just about every day there is a container of Type 2s sailing east across the Atlantic. The split window Beetle migration isn't a fraction of that. _________________ We are striving for perfection, to make our cars run forever, if possible.
Heinz Nordhoff |
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Lind Samba Member
Joined: November 06, 2000 Posts: 9905 Location: idaho
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Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 4:13 pm Post subject: Re: 80s |
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ZENVWDRIVER wrote: |
I don't know about 20 Gs back in the 80s...I've owned 5 splits over the years...1950 11G with running 25 horse for $250.00 in 1976...1950 standard on a 1972 pan in 1978, running for $400...1949 not running in the late 70s for $100...1952 Zwitter with running 25 horse for $2500 in 1992 ...and a 1952 with crotch coolers with running 36 horse for two grand in 1995...nothing was close to 20K.
Currently a 1954 bug for $1500 in 2011,. not running.
The first 4 were in NJ and the early '52 and the '54 in Oklahoma.
One can still get a running split for less than 30K.
...still, a great investment. |
even at those times, those are all incredibly good prices for done restored or very nice original cars. very well bought. _________________ .
Wanted:
Idaho VW license plate frames or other dealership items.
VWoA literature and early dealership or distributor literature/pictures/information
. |
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Splitdog Samba Split Personality
Joined: February 16, 2004 Posts: 4124 Location: Planet VW
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Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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Either these were rust buckets, or he's incredibly rich today. _________________ CH³NO²
Z = z² + C
Der Blitzkrieg Kafers
#notacallooker |
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coolparts Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2004 Posts: 194
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Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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That 1950 11G he bought back in 1976 for 250 dollars was a first shipment hoffman car. But my friend owns it now.paid over 60k for it.
Doesn't mean jack now. That's like buyin mahattan island for 24bucks. Try buying it back now.
Would of, could of or should of . |
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53 0val Samba Professor
Joined: July 03, 2003 Posts: 11396 Location: Irvine, CA
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Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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Buses are a very labor intensive restoration, especially early deluxe buses. You can restore the average split window bug for 1/3 the price. Do the math, it's pretty obvious why restored buses go for "stupid" money. _________________ "What a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away." Dobee, Dobee, Do |
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