Clutch will not disengage, KEP 1.8t. 7 days until Colorado!

[deutschewerks]

Background- 85 Westy 4spd freshly converted to an AEB 1.8t using a Kennedy adapter, HD clutch, and Stage 2 pressure plate. Got the thing up and running, went to put it in reverse and it grinds. Can only put it into gear when engine is not running, or at idle when the van is up on jackstands. Then, the clutch will not disengage at all. Basically, neutral on the shifter is the only time the van is not locked in gear.

Observations/ Info

1. Good slave movement, even tried a second slave cylinder. They are both FTE/FTE style. Also tried a makeshift spacer between the slave and release lever. Bled twice. You can feel the TO bearing stop on the pressure plate.

2. Removed the transmission again. Replaced pilot bearing and starter bushing. Tried my old pressure plate with easier to flex fingers no change. Now all the pressure plates do something I think is weird: the fingers get drawn completely flat as you tighten the pressure plate bolts. Kennedy said this is normal. The only time that this didn't happen was with my old pressure plate and clutch(my old clutch was down to the rivets). Its almost as if the clutch disc is too thick.

3. The only thing I haven't done is adjust the rod on the clutch master. Kennedy seems to think its related to pedal travel only. I have seen info on here about the slave, freeplay adjustments, and one popping it out of gear by rolling the van.

I need help, we are all scratching our heads here, and we are due to leave for Colorado next Friday. I know, last minute. I have been chasing this trans issue for over a week instead of putting miles on the engine. This project has been given everything Ive got for the last two months and I am out of time! Thanks.
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1985 Vanagon Westfalia 1.8t "Buelah"
1994 Golf GL 1.8t 350+hp monster
1999 Golf GL TDI
2000 Golf GL Race car
1993 Eurovan GL

[IdahoDoug]

I have no input, but I suggest you put "Kennedy adapter" and "1.8 conversion" in your thread title vs a generic sounding clutch question. Your problem lies in the specific conversion and adapter I suspect, and that's who you need to hear from - people who've done this. Hope it gets resolved!
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[MarkWard]

Did you shorten the input shaft? I just installed a used Tiico conversion into a vanagon assuming the adapter plate would make up the difference, but it was not enough. The hint was I could see where the input shaft from the person I bought it from left a mark in the crank end. I used some clay on the end of the shaft to measure the clearance, and cut a little at a time. I used a hand held cut off wheel and some masking tape to keep it straight, vs removing the input shaft and doing it properly. The diesel input shaft is about 10 mm shorter I believe.

My guess is you have the same problem. It is hard to measure, but if you bolt the transmission up to the block without the clutch disc, you should be able to turn the engine over and the transmission flanges won't turn in gear. Good thing you caught it if this is the case. Post back your findings for others.
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[insyncro]

Imput shaft length, pilot bearing size and clutch release distance all matter.

Message Andrew Flint, he should be able to help answer some questions.

[BavarianWrench]

First thing I would do is see if my crankshaft has end play. If the trans is jamming it, it will not slide front to back. It should only move a little, check engine spec. If you have none, you are jammed and do not start the engine again. YOU CAN RUIN THE ENGINE IN A HURRY!!!!! If the shaft is binding it will do what you describe. This may sound harsh. It is. Start the van with it in gear and clutch depressed. Then let it drive with clutch depressed. Not a mile, A few Feet will probably do the trick. Something will make noise and leave a mark. The cost of that mark? Two other things to check put some silly putty in the bore of the pilot shaft. don'f fill the bore leave room for it to be squeezed. This may help identify a depth issue. This check doesn't require, disk or plate to be in place. Other thing and please take no offense, make sure the disk is installed with flywheel side to flywheel. Also could try stabbing trans with no disk. This eliminates a disk pressure plate issue if you're still jamming, the plate, disk and release system are eliminated. You will be putting some time into what ever you do. Checking end play takes no time at all and will tell a lot. Look forward to hearing of your success. I'm guessing shaft length issue. Driving it is pretty dam risky, that is a bit of joke. But sometimes things need to be broken to fix. PM me when you're in Denver!

[Steve M.]

listen to Insyncro

[1vw4x4]

I'll second that your input shaft is to long. I really have no idea why
KEP and many others who provide this kit don't at least make a note
to the buyer about this potential problem. Many have run into this over the
years. The engine usually will not even turn, once bolted together.

Let us know what you find...

[deutschewerks]

Thanks for the info, guys. I am pulling the trans again tonight after work, will bolt it back up without the clutch disc to confirm among other things.

As for pilot bearing- I took the original out and replaced it with the newer style one with the integrated grease seal. Ironically this it the same part number for the AEB. Seemed to slide on the input shaft ok.
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1985 Vanagon Westfalia 1.8t "Buelah"
1994 Golf GL 1.8t 350+hp monster
1999 Golf GL TDI
2000 Golf GL Race car
1993 Eurovan GL

[Wildthings]

Should be easy enough once you have the engine and tranny split to use a straight edge across the bellhousing and engine mating surfaces to figure out how far the input shaft is fitting into the crankshaft.

[deutschewerks]

Input shaft length it is! You could see where the snout was contacting the crank both on the crank and the input shaft. No shavings though. So I shaved it down, welded the TOB release forks while I had the trans out (again), and reassembled. Took it for its first drive last night. Now to log some miles before we leave on Friday for CO! Thanks everyone!
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1985 Vanagon Westfalia 1.8t "Buelah"
1994 Golf GL 1.8t 350+hp monster
1999 Golf GL TDI
2000 Golf GL Race car
1993 Eurovan GL

[danfromsyr]

WOOT, while I've never seen (or heard) of a KEP or mainstream adapter maker having an issue with the length of the input shaft to this extent.
the suggestions were marked as Plausible and the Myth has been confirmed when you bolted the engine to trans w.o any clutch parts and still had engaged driveline gears..
that's an old car symptom of a failed pilot bearing which you did change (on trans removal #2) with no change in results.

extra-long input shaft, your lady may like it, not so much your transmission

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