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VWGirl
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2003
Posts: 2462
Location: Powder Springs, GA
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 Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:43 am Post subject: |
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I appreciate all your concern for the imperfections of my paint. The paint would have been fine had I finished it. Sorry you all disapprove so much of it. He was happy with the paint when he did it and I was fine with it too. Maybe it was a lot of work to buff it out, but it was looking fantastic. It was also turning out smoother than a new car... or a paint job.
Honestly ive never had a car that I was happy with the clear so I prefer the single stage paint for that and the fact that I CAN do this. I am actually kind of disappointed that i dont get to finish out that paint job. I didnt ask to have to have my car painted or go through any of this. There are a whole lot of decisions that have to be made about the car that I am just not ready for and am being rushed into doing when I really thought I would be doing this 5 to 10 years down the road.
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arizonabuckeye
Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2013
Posts: 544
Location: SLC
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:22 am Post subject: |
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| luckystiff wrote: |
if you think an insurance company is gonna dole out money because YOU want them to let me put this lightly YOUR CRAZY. they will make a settlement offer that will either pay to get the car fixed or TOTAL the car and give you the chance to buy it back at salvage value. you can fight them in court to get the whole shebang paid for but you also stand the chance of coming out of it worse than their settlement offer. i've seen that happen. the ins co's are also REALLY good about if you go this route they will drag it through the courts for a LONG time.
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And that may be the case in some states, as I said I was only giving my understanding of the law in AZ/liability coverage in general. If it is your policy you are definitively at the mercy of your company but that is not the case here. The other guys insurance is liable for the damages. They don't get to decide what/how/who of the repair. I mean how would that even work? Your guys causes damages then you decide what it will take to fix them? Sorry, wrong. Most states in fact have laws protecting consumers now where if you can show a judge that what you where asking was reasonable and the insurance company had no grounds to deny the claim, not only do you get the full amount of your request but you also get attorney fees and a penalty on top of that.
Thats why there has been tons of great advise that VWGirl needs to get to work on. You need concrete values of every aspect of your car. Get comps for cars that are perfect and cars that are in worse shape and cars that are really close to yours. The more you can show the insurance company what it will actually cost the more you boost your settlement. A single repair estimate is fine, but it needs to be in depth and detailed. It needs to say exactly what is broken why the part needs to be fix or replaced. Make sure you get prices for the same part don't get prices for a repop when the part was original.
Remember it's a settlement. It costs them money to go to court too. They may come back and say "well we think the repairs could be done for xxx thousand less than you think", that's just their first offer. Have this stuff ready so you can give a counter offer within a day or two. |
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KTPhil 
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34003
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:40 am Post subject: |
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Something you don't want to forget, though the insurance companies want you to, is that regardless of whether anyone has insurance or not, each of us is liable for damages we create.
The other driver bought insurance to cover expenses if he hits someone. But that does not change your legal right in civil court to recover damages, and be "made whole." It does not matter if his insurance company wants to "total" it at some lowball value. The OTHER DRIVER remains liable for the difference between his insurance coverage and your actual damages.
How could it be any other way? How can someone ELSE signing a piece of paper be equated with YOU giving up your rights? It can't, of course. But insurance companies (yours and his) will try to confuse you into thinking they control the amount of the damages, and therefore payment.
If you are, say, $5000 short of the actual damages because HIS insurance company limited its payment due to wording in the DRIVER's policy, you can still sue the DRIVER for the additional $5000 you are owed.
In most states, Small Claims Court is cheap and relatively easy. In California, a $75 filing fee means you can recover up to $7500 in damages; other states vary.
Just like in regular court you have to have objective evidence. But you don't need a lawyer. In fact, they are prohibited from representing either party.
So the insurance settlement need not be the final answer. And be VERY careful of the fine print in any settlement agreement with either insurance company. Be sure you are not giving up your rights to be made whole by the DRIVER. |
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arizonabuckeye
Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2013
Posts: 544
Location: SLC
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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| KTPhil wrote: |
Something you don't want to forget, though the insurance companies want you to, is that regardless of whether anyone has insurance or not, each of us is liable for damages we create.
The other driver bought insurance to cover expenses if he hits someone. But that does not change your legal right in civil court to recover damages, and be "made whole." It does not matter if his insurance company wants to "total" it at some lowball value. The OTHER DRIVER remains liable for the difference between his insurance coverage and your actual damages.
How could it be any other way? How can someone ELSE signing a piece of paper be equated with YOU giving up your rights? It can't, of course. But insurance companies (yours and his) will try to confuse you into thinking they control the amount of the damages, and therefore payment.
If you are, say, $5000 short of the actual damages because HIS insurance company limited its payment due to wording in the DRIVER's policy, you can still sue the DRIVER for the additional $5000 you are owed.
In most states, Small Claims Court is cheap and relatively easy. In California, a $75 filing fee means you can recover up to $7500 in damages; other states vary.
Just like in regular court you have to have objective evidence. But you don't need a lawyer. In fact, they are prohibited from representing either party.
So the insurance settlement need not be the final answer. And be VERY careful of the fine print in any settlement agreement with either insurance company. Be sure you are not giving up your rights to be made whole by the DRIVER. |
+1 |
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luckystiff
Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2005
Posts: 2252
Location: hickory,nc
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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and at that point i hope vwgirl has the cash to front the additional amount while waiting on going to small claims and then being reimbursed most likely via small payments as she is going to need a TOTAL finished repair price to know what to sue for in the overage. meaning all repairs need to be accounted for so either AKK has to be willing to wait for the left over balance until the claim is settled(not likely).
in a perfect world she should be compensated for all her troubles in this. MOST people get that via personal settlement which in case you didn't know they base alot of that around the med bills totals. as pointed out most minimum coverage puts personal injury markers at about 1.5 times that of property damage.
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iowegian
Samba Curmudgeon
Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 9829
Location: Somewhere between Dubuque and Keokuk
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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| luckystiff wrote: |
and at that point i hope vwgirl has the cash to front the additional amount while waiting on going to small claims and then being reimbursed most likely via small payments as she is going to need a TOTAL finished repair price to know what to sue for in the overage. meaning all repairs need to be accounted for so either AKK has to be willing to wait for the left over balance until the claim is settled(not likely).
in a perfect world she should be compensated for all her troubles in this. MOST people get that via personal settlement which in case you didn't know they base alot of that around the med bills totals. as pointed out most minimum coverage puts personal injury markers at about 1.5 times that of property damage. |
She certainly must have gotten a whip-lash, didn't she?
Sometimes injuries like that don't show up for weeks------or even months.  |
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luckystiff
Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2005
Posts: 2252
Location: hickory,nc
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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i forgot to mention that that first damage appraisal probably isn't going to be worth the paper it's written on. esp if it's not done by a qualified appraiser. case in point...
about this time last year we had a customer at the hot rod shop we were just finishing up a $200k build on a '71 cuda for. the weekend before he was supposed to get it a lady t boned his '10 WRX hitting him right in the left front fender. he wanted us to fix the car. yeah we are a hot rod shop that not much newer than 1980 rolls into but when a guy just spent $150k in house you cater to him.... anyhow adjuster came to his place of business in raleigh where the car was and wrote an estimate of $69xx. the following weekend he gets it in the trailer(broken lower control arm and all) and gets it over to us. we had the car in the shop less than an hour and found tons of stuff that adjuster missed. call and had a new local guy there by noon. he agreed the first estimate was way wrong and told us to finish tearing apart and taking photos along the way as we did with every project in the shop. 10am the next morning he comes by again and writes new estimate using what could now be seen that couldn't be seen before and the stuff the first adjuster missed..... new total $12400 and it actually ended up being just over $13k even with me sourcing some parts cheaper and we modded the front air damn for the huge new intercooler for the new turbo it also got a week after it left our shop.
that car was in our shop 2 months. i swear we had to defend it being there every day. old dudes saying " i thought this was a hot rod shop" left and right. NONE of them would race it. aren't hot rods fast? hahaha. that car made me want a wrx....
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luckystiff
Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2005
Posts: 2252
Location: hickory,nc
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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the gist is unless the first adjuster pads the hell out of an estimate they'll probably have to go back again....
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EverettB
Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 69809
Location: Phoenix Metro
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Gary
Person of Interest
Joined: November 01, 2002
Posts: 17069
Location: 127.0.0.1
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:44 am Post subject: |
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| KTPhil wrote: |
Something you don't want to forget, though the insurance companies want you to, is that regardless of whether anyone has insurance or not, each of us is liable for damages we create.
The other driver bought insurance to cover expenses if he hits someone. But that does not change your legal right in civil court to recover damages, and be "made whole." It does not matter if his insurance company wants to "total" it at some lowball value. The OTHER DRIVER remains liable for the difference between his insurance coverage and your actual damages.
How could it be any other way? How can someone ELSE signing a piece of paper be equated with YOU giving up your rights? It can't, of course. But insurance companies (yours and his) will try to confuse you into thinking they control the amount of the damages, and therefore payment.
If you are, say, $5000 short of the actual damages because HIS insurance company limited its payment due to wording in the DRIVER's policy, you can still sue the DRIVER for the additional $5000 you are owed.
In most states, Small Claims Court is cheap and relatively easy. In California, a $75 filing fee means you can recover up to $7500 in damages; other states vary.
Just like in regular court you have to have objective evidence. But you don't need a lawyer. In fact, they are prohibited from representing either party.
So the insurance settlement need not be the final answer. And be VERY careful of the fine print in any settlement agreement with either insurance company. Be sure you are not giving up your rights to be made whole by the DRIVER. |
Just to clarify the part in bold, Small Claims rules are statutory in each State and some States do allow a lawyer to be present. I used a lawyer for a small claims action in Oklahoma a few years ago for an amount under $10,000. People should consult local statutes when making a decision.
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VWGirl
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2003
Posts: 2462
Location: Powder Springs, GA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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I have been to small claims before and honestly it is kind of a joke... I actually have legal documents saying that someone owes me something like $2800... and that they agreed to pay it in installments even... but they never once paid a dime... I went back to get some document i needed to garnish her wages... but she has been living off the government for several years now so that does me no good.
Whip lash? IDK if that is what you call it, but I have had some upper back pain that has been unreal since the accident. YES, I went to the chiropractor, and yes I filed a medical claim for that. I would rather not be in pain... oh and I got a massage as part of my treatment! Holy crap deep tissue massages hurt! but if it makes the pain in my upper back/neck/headaches go away then whatever! Makes for some sleepless nights!
AKK did get my trunk open and there is some slight buckling. So you guys were right. They said they can save the fender but really need a new rear apron. Why can I find NOS squareback aprons, but can't find a notch apron?
This is seriously time consuming. Between insurance, trying to fix the car, trying to fix me, AND working 6 days a week, 10 hour days. The decisions I have to make about the car are really stressing me out... on top of that my dealership is in the process of being sold, so work is stressful too!
Thanks for the heads up on the square Ev!
I still feel like this is an alternate reality and I must have just parked the notch out back... yeah... that's why she isn't in my driveway...
Oh yeah, need to go through my insurance policies again so I can drive the other dubs. don't want to be caught under insured!
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luckystiff
Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2005
Posts: 2252
Location: hickory,nc
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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going to the chiro once or even 4-5 times isn't a cure. going until he gives you a release and on the schedule he tells you is how you get your problem fixed there. my mom worked for an awesome one for many years. to get right mostly likely means 1-3 visits a week for months.
your personal injury settlement is also based on the sum of those medical bills to get you back "right".
and yeah deep tissue can be brutal esp if your all bunched up from the wreck. my advise is go back to both the chiro and massage joints. ins should be covering both.
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VWGirl
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2003
Posts: 2462
Location: Powder Springs, GA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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They are, but still its no fun. My chiro is pretty awesome, but how it is right now after about 48 hours from my visit im back in pain. Fortunately (I guess?) I dont have the time to be working on any of my cars right now, so it isnt hindering me there, but it definitely makes it hard to get to sleep. Today im just all sorts of sore from the massage. Hope it does just feel better in a couple of days from putting up with that?
Also they said they dont reimburse for lost time from work after the first week cause those visits are "planned" idk how im supposed to plan to fit chiro visits in my schedule. I work the same hours she is open! Not to mention the times lost for meeting with the adjuster and the tow truck driver. Both those were like 2 hours from work each!
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22711
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| VWGirl wrote: |
They are, but still its no fun. My chiro is pretty awesome, but how it is right now after about 48 hours from my visit im back in pain. Fortunately (I guess?) I dont have the time to be working on any of my cars right now, so it isnt hindering me there, but it definitely makes it hard to get to sleep. Today im just all sorts of sore from the massage. Hope it does just feel better in a couple of days from putting up with that?
Also they said they dont reimburse for lost time from work after the first week cause those visits are "planned" idk how im supposed to plan to fit chiro visits in my schedule. I work the same hours she is open! Not to mention the times lost for meeting with the adjuster and the tow truck driver. Both those were like 2 hours from work each! |
This is why you need to consult with counsel.
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luckystiff
Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2005
Posts: 2252
Location: hickory,nc
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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yeah tell them
"no problem you can reimburse me for my time and my counsel for his and i can get back to living my life uninterrupted by your haggles as it was before your client ran into ME"
as long as your biting on the bullshit they feed they'll feed you some more. your personal settlement will reimburse you for lost time if you do as you should.
if they aren't supplying you with a rental thats another that i'd hit them with. they have no way to know if the notch was your main form of transportation(unless you told them) and could be footing a bill for a rental car for you while all this is going on. a CHEAP even at their corp rate rental is probably $150wk. they are out to get out of this as cheap as possible and are going to feed you EVERY line they can. at least 30% will likely be outright lies....
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22711
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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| luckystiff wrote: |
yeah tell them
"no problem you can reimburse me for my time and my counsel for his and i can get back to living my life uninterrupted by your haggles as it was before your client ran into ME"
as long as your biting on the bullshit they feed they'll feed you some more. your personal settlement will reimburse you for lost time if you do as you should.
if they aren't supplying you with a rental thats another that i'd hit them with. they have no way to know if the notch was your main form of transportation(unless you told them) and could be footing a bill for a rental car for you while all this is going on. a CHEAP even at their corp rate rental is probably $150wk. they are out to get out of this as cheap as possible and are going to feed you EVERY line they can. at least 30% will likely be outright lies.... |
Considering she had classic car insurance on it, I don't think that's going to fly.
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VWGirl
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2003
Posts: 2462
Location: Powder Springs, GA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 2:57 am Post subject: |
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Considering I had classic car insurance and the guy showed up at my house with two other vws in the driveway (one of which I drove ofd in while he took his time doing whateber her was doing) and more in the backyard that he could see and asked about... yeah, probably not going to fly... we discussed rental cars early on and I said I didnt need one, but said I did want to make a claim for loss of use of my car.
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luckystiff
Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2005
Posts: 2252
Location: hickory,nc
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| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:02 am Post subject: |
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not all classic coverages are limiting. granted most are.
and vwgirl the 48hrs later the feeling better deminishes is a sign you need to be seeing your chiro every 2-3 days right now. the one my mom worked for would have you come in mon/weds/fri for the first 4-6 weeks. then switch to tues/thurs once you felt like your pain was diminishing and your GOOD feelings were lasting longer that would usually again be for 4-6 weeks. after that his suggestion would be once a week for 4-6 months and then finally once a month from there on out. your chiro probably has a similar treatment plan. TALK TO HIM/HER....
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ALLWAGONS
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2000
Posts: 4186
Location: Pasadena CA/DTLA soon China
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| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:39 am Post subject: |
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| VWGirl wrote: |
| Considering I had classic car insurance and the guy showed up at my house with two other vws in the driveway (one of which I drove ofd in while he took his time doing whateber her was doing) and more in the backyard that he could see and asked about... yeah, probably not going to fly... we discussed rental cars early on and I said I didnt need one, but said I did want to make a claim for loss of use of my car. |
How can you prove loss of use? how do ou put a price on a car that you have no proof it makes you money. I said I was not going to chime in but, why do people lag so much when it come to their personal issues. I would have not gone to work until I had my medical issues resolved and my car at the bodyshop. That is loss of use (income) due to the Traffic Collision you were not guilty of.
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VWGirl
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2003
Posts: 2462
Location: Powder Springs, GA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:48 am Post subject: |
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| ALLWAGONS wrote: |
| VWGirl wrote: |
| Considering I had classic car insurance and the guy showed up at my house with two other vws in the driveway (one of which I drove ofd in while he took his time doing whateber her was doing) and more in the backyard that he could see and asked about... yeah, probably not going to fly... we discussed rental cars early on and I said I didnt need one, but said I did want to make a claim for loss of use of my car. |
How can you prove loss of use? how do ou put a price on a car that you have no proof it makes you money. I said I was not going to chime in but, why do people lag so much when it come to their personal issues. I would have not gone to work until I had my medical issues resolved and my car at the bodyshop. That is loss of use (income) due to the Traffic Collision you were not guilty of. |
First, I was pretty shaken up at the accident. Idk if I was in shock or what. I was literally shaking. Probably the only reason I didnt kill the guy for hitting my car.
Second, I didnt feel any pain initially. I thpught I was fine. Ive been in accidents before and been fine. It really didnt see that bad.
I took the car to work and left it there so they could come look at the car... apparently the consensus is that I should have towed it home, or now arranged for transport to alabama. Had I done all of that then I definitely wouldnt have had a chance to go to the doctor.
When I started to feel pain a few hours later I did call the chiro. She couldnt see me the same day, so saw me first thing the next morning.
How can I claim loss of use? Well I cant use it can I? Some states require the insurance company pay out for rental expenses whether you get a rental or not. Even if it isnt required it doesnt mean they wont pay it.
I waited a LONG time to buy that car. I take it to car shows (sso far its missed 3) and I cant do that now. Its not even in the same time zone as I am. I have a lot of money tied up in a car that I cannot enjoy. Why should I not be paid for loss of use? It isnt like the car is going to be gone a couple of months... even best case scenario I would be looking at getting it sometime between valentines day and easter... thats 6 to 9 months out! Likely it will be gone for longer than that. There was nothing wrong witb the car. I was enjoying my purchase and now I cant. Why shouldnt I be compensated for that?
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