Link pin front end help!

[Snowking63]

Just got a new job so it's time to stop procrastinating on my baja daily driver front end.
Let me just say that the front end was fine until I got in an accident in December. The other car hit and tweaked my front drivers side wheel inwards. And if it wasn't for the bumper, who knows what would've happened with only the fiberglass protecting the gas tank.

So after the accident I realigned the wheels and drove it for a while. What's really weird is that the front wheels were cambered. When I move forward the wheels caber out /\ and when I move back they camber in \/. Which told me that the wheels were still not aligned right. I aligned it the best I could, replaced the king and link pins with bilstiens, and replaced the steering damper because the old one didn't work at all. The wheels are still cambered and I have no idea what the problem can be at this point.

On the freeway I would almost say it's a double-laner. I'm all over the lane and there's some play in the wheel. My dad said he doesn't think it's the steering box but at this point I'm ready to try anything. Any help would be great.
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Money is a gas, not a trip
OGK
my 63 baja daily driver
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6485278&highlight=#6485278

[joe56vw]

I bet your trailing arm is bent they are the weak points on those front ends
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why is there no sarcasism button on here?

[KTPhil]

On a stock beam camber is fixed and should not change as the wheels travel up and down, or when you drive forward or backwards. If yours is changing, something is amiss!

Being a Baja, the front end may not be stock. Can you post pics?

[Snowking63]

The front end is stock but I will post pics tomorrow when there's light
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Money is a gas, not a trip
OGK
my 63 baja daily driver
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6485278&highlight=#6485278

[Snowking63]

Once I figure out how to post photos from my iPod since my computer is down
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Money is a gas, not a trip
OGK
my 63 baja daily driver
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6485278&highlight=#6485278

[KTPhil]

[Snowking63]

[Snowking63]

Let me just say that the bumper is pretty tweaked from the crash. My car was hit on the front of the driver side wheel/bumper. So here's the camber moving forward. Alignment changed so now the camber is opposite than what it used to be.

You can see the tire tread is wearing down pretty awkwardly and these tires haven't had many miles put on them

Front of tire alignment when car is pulled forward

Back of tire alignment when pulled forward

This is the camber when the car was moved back. You can see the difference is pretty big

Front of tire alignment when car was backed up

And the back of the tire alignment

The wear of the tread is pretty visible here

Passenger side

Sorry the bad pic

And the driver's side

Again, sorry for the bad pic

When the car is jacked up there's play in the wheels if I wiggle them. And after we replaced the king and link pins with bilsteins it didn't make much of a difference.
I'll post more/better pics if requested. Thanks in advance
_________________
Money is a gas, not a trip
OGK
my 63 baja daily driver
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6485278&highlight=#6485278

[mukluk]

[Snowking63]

[KTPhil]

If you are getting play, its got to be in the bearings, link pins, or king pin. Something is worn or mis-adjusted. Maybe more than one! Accidents usually bend or break something, they don't cause wear or play immediately.

[Snowking63]

[KTPhil]

The pins and/or bushings can be replaced without replacing the whole spindle. I would take one side apart and inspect it to see what you really need. The 'replace it and see if it fixes the problem" method is most expensive.

[drscope]

I think you have a real problem being able to identify the names of parts and components.

That is going to cause you a lot of problems trying to get answers to your questions and solutions to your problems.

If you don't already have one, get yourself a service manual and brush up on the correct names of the various parts so that you cam identify them.
This is a very good manual for people just starting out:

There are normally 3 things that cause play at the wheels.
Loose wheel bearings
Worn king & link pins
Worn tie rod ends.

Wheel bearings can be adjusted to take the play out and as long as the bearing isn't coming apart or otherwise damaged, it's a pretty simple adjustment.

Link pins can be adjusted, but in reality this is seldom the cause. It's pretty common for the king & link pins to be worn and in need of replacement.

You make mention of replacing them, but your terminology leaves questions in regards to if that is what you actually did. If you did in fact replace then king & ling pins as well as their bushings, then you may in fact just need a simple link pin adjustment.

Play felt more at 3 and 9 o'clock usually means you have one or more worn tie rod ends. It would also allow the toe settings to change as the car was rolled forwards or backwards.

Damage to the spindle itself would not cause play in the wheel.
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Mother Nature is a Mean Evil Bitch!

[modok]

Most likely the arms are bent.

This is a well balanced design and I have found it is possible to bend every piece of it. The arms, the beam, the king pin bracket, and the spindle itself.
You just have to take it apart and inspect each piece and replace the bent pieces.

For tools you need perhaps 2 levels and maybe a ruler.

[Snowking63]

Got myself some pre-assembled spindles. They came with some made in China link pins and the kings have already been reemed. It's a shame I'll have to say goodbye to the bilstiens but hopefully this should fix the problem. Will post again when I have them replaced
_________________
Money is a gas, not a trip
OGK
my 63 baja daily driver
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6485278&highlight=#6485278

[61SNRF]

One thing I can tell you for sure, once you modify a VW in any way, you have set off a chain reaction of other modifications to compensate, and/or make some compromises as a result

Keep in mind the front end was originally designed for 560 x 15 tires and wheels.
With large, oversize tires and wheels, you're adding many kg's of extra load and stress.

As an aside, what I also see as notable about the general wear pattern of your tires is that it's also somewhat excessive near the middle of the tread. That is typically caused by running them with too much pressure.
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An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

[drscope]

I still don’t see a measurement of the trailing arm faces!

New steering knuckles with new king & link pins may take away some of the slop, but I don’t think they are going to fix your camber issues. Usually if they are bent enough to effect camber they are all bound up.

And while on the subject of king and link pins, Chinese pins are NOT what you want on a buggy! They break! Even on street cars they fail! German stuff is really the only way to go on this.

And can you tell us in detail just what this Bilstein stuff is you are referring to?
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Mother Nature is a Mean Evil Bitch!

[Snowking63]

Can you explain how to measure the trailing arm faces?

And the bilsteins are the German made pins, I think we paid almost $400 for.

But what's confusing is that there is play between the king pin carrier and king pin which tells me there's something wrong with the bushings. But we replaced the bushings very recently and correctly with bilsteins (German made). So there has to be a problem with the king pin carrier where the bushing sit in is right?
_________________
Money is a gas, not a trip
OGK
my 63 baja daily driver
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6485278&highlight=#6485278

[drscope]

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