Seat rail replacement

TheFop · Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:33 am Post subject: Seat rail replacement

Hi Folks,

I had an extremely productive 4 hours today and chopped out one of my floor pans and replaced it with new, everything went extremely smoothly until I opened the pack for the new outer seat rail and I found 3 pieces, the rail itself, the teng? and a piece of angle.
What is the piece of angled steel for, my rails were crunchy and brown or not even rails any longer and I couldn't see where the angle would go.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Rusty 61 RHD Karmann Ghia Coupe - Resto in progress....slowly
Stock 69 LHD Karmann Ghia Coupe - Driver
67 New Zealand Spec Beetle - Being rebuilt
63 New Zealand Spec Beetle - Going Baja!
86 T25 Westfalia - Family Fun car

jpjohns · Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:38 am Post subject:

The angled piece is a support for the seat rail, welds to the floorpan and the side of the rail. You can watch Pete's install series on it here:

Link

It's like 5 or six parts and the guy is kinda rough around the edges but he puts out some great info on measuring and more. Main thing he points out is do one side at a time so you can measure properly and have a reference.

I had a great time watching all of them really. I think it's part two where he gets to the rails.

BTW...where did you order your rails from? KPGR is kind of expensive at 60 bucks per rail. 250 for both seats is kind of crazy for a little bit of metal.
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-Jared

"Scrapyards are for quitters" - Beetlenut (a Samba member)

TheFop · Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 2:34 pm Post subject:

My friend Pete!!! I watched these videos some time ago when I first got the Ghia, I laughed my ass off, they are really good videos and hysterical...love this guy.
I bought mine from CIP1 I think, your right the $'s for them is insane, I really need all 4 but will repair the better 3, the left outer really was total toast with plates welded to it and very little metal left.

Its good to see that these plates are made to support the rails and to eliminate the cross member, I may go with that option and save myself building a cross member and welding it in, not stock but I lost track of stock when I bought later heater channels.
_________________
Rusty 61 RHD Karmann Ghia Coupe - Resto in progress....slowly
Stock 69 LHD Karmann Ghia Coupe - Driver
67 New Zealand Spec Beetle - Being rebuilt
63 New Zealand Spec Beetle - Going Baja!
86 T25 Westfalia - Family Fun car

ScottDoonan · Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:42 pm Post subject: Additional photos

This was my go at it. The measurements are rough right now, but hope they may help others in finding a starting point and be of service in this thread. Once everything is done and welded in, I would like to add dimensions of final location for reference. This is a great thread, especially because this is one Ghia fix that is very important, yet not too much in the way of how to threads. Thanks for the addition hope these photos add to the topic.

_________________
If you take time to do it, do it right and don't be so damn cheap.....🤙🏻

1959 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet (current restoration)
1965 Porsche 356 SC coupe
1967 Volkswagen Convertible Beetle
1969 Porsche 911E Targa 3.2 twin plug
2006 Porsche 987 Rüf 3400K Prototype #2 of 2

CiderGuy · Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:28 am Post subject:

On an up note, with replacement seat rails if you're a tall or big guy you can gain a few inches of leg or belly room, by placing the rails further back than they normally would be.

TheFop · Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:55 am Post subject:

Grrr, now you've set the bar so I need to build the cross member, so I will probably cut the remains of a good section out for the angles....time to find someone with a folder.
Also is the channel butted up to the rail and welded on all faces? again mine are all brown and crumbly so I can't tell.

I'm setting my rails about 4cm back from stock as I'm 6'2, not sure what others have found setting theirs back, is that enough?

Out of interest I see you got the right pans for the era, I didn't realise there was a difference so just got the generic and generally available ones which don't have the raised section on the inner rears.

Is that your Scion in the background?
_________________
Rusty 61 RHD Karmann Ghia Coupe - Resto in progress....slowly
Stock 69 LHD Karmann Ghia Coupe - Driver
67 New Zealand Spec Beetle - Being rebuilt
63 New Zealand Spec Beetle - Going Baja!
86 T25 Westfalia - Family Fun car

TheFop · Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:00 am Post subject:

Oh yes.....I saw in "My friend Pete"s video him welding a brake stop bracket onto the pan he was doing, did a 61 have this? Again this area is brown and crumbly and has been butchered previously on mine.

_________________
Rusty 61 RHD Karmann Ghia Coupe - Resto in progress....slowly
Stock 69 LHD Karmann Ghia Coupe - Driver
67 New Zealand Spec Beetle - Being rebuilt
63 New Zealand Spec Beetle - Going Baja!
86 T25 Westfalia - Family Fun car

sputnick60 · Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:41 am Post subject:

jpjohns · Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:08 pm Post subject:

ScottDoonan · Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:00 pm Post subject:

Hey Fop,
Yes that's the scion xb 2006, she is a great car. Commute in her and had her since new. My wife and I call her the x box. The pans were sourced by Colby at Monkey Nut who is a great guy. Demand for early ghia pan reproduction is not big at all, and he told me this will probably be the last set they make. I will say they are defiantly more expensive then the others on the market, but worth every penny IMO, especially for this restoration. I have done quite a few of these now,and these are hands down the best quality, thickest Gauge, & nicest stamped pans I have ever used. I think you moving the seat back will be fine. I personally would use the cross member just to tie in the parallel rails with a perpendicular member. The only problem you may run into with moving back the mentioned distance, is that flange may now be over the concave portion of the bead making welding it difficult. You may need to move it back a little more, or not as much, depending on location of bead stamping. I really think this is a repair that a paramount for a "safer car", especially because of forces put on the rails if a impact should occur. Let's face it the seat rails will be the least of your worries, but at least your seat will stay anchored to the pan.

If you look where the front flange of cross member is it is just on the edge of first bead stamping may interfere with the welds across the cross member, depending how far back you move it, (cross member straddles it). Don't know if explanation makes sense hope the photos help. If anyone needs clarification, I will be happy to help the best I can. I hope this thread can get into the "how to" sticky if it gains traction, and others add info on their experiences in seat rail placement and/or pan R&R. There is information out there but as we know it's a little obscured, scattered and a little vague. I think as a community we can make this a more straight forward task to undertake, and not be so daunting. Thanks Fop for getting the ball rolling Applause

_________________
If you take time to do it, do it right and don't be so damn cheap.....🤙🏻

1959 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet (current restoration)
1965 Porsche 356 SC coupe
1967 Volkswagen Convertible Beetle
1969 Porsche 911E Targa 3.2 twin plug
2006 Porsche 987 Rüf 3400K Prototype #2 of 2

John Moxon · Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:09 am Post subject:

TheFop · Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:40 am Post subject:

This is the inner channel which I've managed to unpick from the pan which had 3 layers of pan metal welded to it due to 2 previous pan "repairs" and another plate on the tunnel which had been welded to it, there is some rust damage but I'll fix that up.
Its been primed for now as I had to do a lot of grinding and blasted all the rust off.

[/img]
_________________
Rusty 61 RHD Karmann Ghia Coupe - Resto in progress....slowly
Stock 69 LHD Karmann Ghia Coupe - Driver
67 New Zealand Spec Beetle - Being rebuilt
63 New Zealand Spec Beetle - Going Baja!
86 T25 Westfalia - Family Fun car

TheFop · Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:47 am Post subject:

NOVA Airhead · Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:22 am Post subject:

ScottDoonan · Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:19 pm Post subject:

Thanks John you are like a ninja. As the work continues, I will add my particular measurements, placements and photos to the thread. Hope other do to. Depending on partial pan replacement, half or whole replacement, and manufacturer, I have found rail placement can vary from factory locations a little here or there. This is where more information of how locations were established, coupled with measurements and location points may take some of the guess work out of the equation. Time will tell if this thread prospers or dies on the vine.
_________________
If you take time to do it, do it right and don't be so damn cheap.....🤙🏻

1959 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet (current restoration)
1965 Porsche 356 SC coupe
1967 Volkswagen Convertible Beetle
1969 Porsche 911E Targa 3.2 twin plug
2006 Porsche 987 Rüf 3400K Prototype #2 of 2

TheFop · Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:28 am Post subject:

KGCoupe · Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:38 am Post subject:

c21darrel · Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:47 am Post subject:

So, KGcoupe, Are you saying they should just call it "the MailBox"? Cool

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GhiaBuild
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1967 DC build
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KGCoupe · Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:01 pm Post subject:

ScottDoonan · Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:11 pm Post subject: Crossmember measurements

Measurements for crossmember using 16ga.

_________________
If you take time to do it, do it right and don't be so damn cheap.....🤙🏻

1959 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet (current restoration)
1965 Porsche 356 SC coupe
1967 Volkswagen Convertible Beetle
1969 Porsche 911E Targa 3.2 twin plug
2006 Porsche 987 Rüf 3400K Prototype #2 of 2


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