| Author |
Message |
Danwvw
Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012
Posts: 8892
Location: Oregon Coast
|
 Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:25 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
I have been holding off getting heads for my VW Bus engine because I want to be more comfortable that I am getting the right ones. It's a 74mm stroke by 88mm bore Type 1 with Dual Carb's, Dellorto 36's, Web-Cam 163, currently running Port matched stock German VW heads. The Mofoco Super Street 040's have been recommended. I am wondering what the intake port volume is and if the 041 heads are the same head as the 040 but with the larger intake valve and what if any porting is done with super street heads?
_________________
1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths! |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Dan Ruddock
Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2012
Posts: 3594
Location: Sarasota, in my adopted state of Florida
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
We all know that louvered deck lids cool better because of more air flow. The same could be said about the other side of the fan where the air flow must get past and threw the heads and cylinders.
If the heads are all plugged up with core shift and plugged air passages you will have less air flow and it will run hotter not cooler under adverse conditions like a bus going up a long hill. I don't care how many fins the heads has if the air flow is poor it's going to run hot. Look at the way a Porsche 911 head is designed, air flow to the max. The two valves are on top of each other (vertical) and not side by side like T1, 356 and T4. Tons of room for fins and passages for air flow. The Furman four cam carrera race engine also has the valves top and bottom. This engine also had two fans back to back with air inlets on the front and back side of the shroud. The cooling capacity of that engine was huge. You can learn a lot looking at Porsche engines. A air cooled VW would never survive on the Le Mans track at speed.
You can create a test that measures gas mileage on a caddy going down hill to make things look good but honest testing is another matter.
Dan |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
| if you will pay all cost,I will sacrifice my vw for a few passes at Le Mans track at speed,I realy dont think it will hurt squat but your wallet.and Im due for a vacation.you can come too!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
67_looker
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2012
Posts: 27
Location: Denmark
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Dan Ruddock wrote: |
We all know that louvered deck lids cool better because of more air flow. The same could be said about the other side of the fan where the air flow must get past and threw the heads and cylinders.
If the heads are all plugged up with core shift and plugged air passages you will have less air flow and it will run hotter not cooler under adverse conditions like a bus going up a long hill. I don't care how many fins the heads has if the air flow is poor it's going to run hot. Look at the way a Porsche 911 head is designed, air flow to the max. The two valves are on top of each other (vertical) and not side by side like T1, 356 and T4. Tons of room for fins and passages for air flow. The Furman four cam carrera race engine also has the valves top and bottom. This engine also had two fans back to back with air inlets on the front and back side of the shroud. The cooling capacity of that engine was huge. You can learn a lot looking at Porsche engines. A air cooled VW would never survive on the Le Mans track at speed.
You can create a test that measures gas mileage on a caddy going down hill to make things look good but honest testing is another matter.
Dan |
x2 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hooker
Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2004
Posts: 261
Location: Bend, Oregon
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
| vwracerdave wrote: |
| [email protected] wrote: |
| Sorry everyone. I've addressed this in another thread. I had them tested by three separate companies. Their testing confirmed that they are better running, better cooling and better quality heads than comparably priced heads made by other companies. |
Have "Them" post their test results in their own words with their name attached. I'm not interested in your salemanship talk or self proclaimed opinions. |
Have to agree with Dave on this one. Name, rank and serial number and date of birth please. I would like to know who "THEM" is as well.
_________________
2007 NHRA Division 6 Finals Champion air cooled Rabbit P/U rear engine compact/import class, 13.32 sec 1/4 Woodburn, Oregon
Pauter Big Block VW 2610 cc turbo mid engine roadster 9.69 sec @ 147 mph 1/4 PIR Oregon
I spent most my money on women and VW race cars. The rest I wasted. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dan Ruddock
Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2012
Posts: 3594
Location: Sarasota, in my adopted state of Florida
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
| mark tucker wrote: |
| if you will pay all cost,I will sacrifice my vw for a few passes at Le Mans track at speed,I realy dont think it will hurt squat but your wallet.and Im due for a vacation.you can come too!! |
Not for 24 hrs. It would melt. A engine builder friend of mine told me about a 82mm crank engine he built for a custumer. He drove it from LA to Vegas at a constant 100+ mph for hours and the crank broke. Had very few miles one it. Vw's are great cruisers and an short blasts here and there and they just fine.
Dan |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Stripped66
Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2005
Posts: 3470
Location: Charleston, SC
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
Paul Ripa (JBBugs) is a regular in the Chump Car endurance races in his Type 1 powered Beetle, and manages to place well in his class. I suppose you folks could wax poetically about how he can't be doing it.
_________________
| 66brm wrote: |
| Bodacious wrote: |
| Why not just make a custom set of wires with a Y splice in them. Then you could just run one distributor. |
I don't think electrickery works that way |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Quokka42
Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2010
Posts: 3117
Location: Melbourne, Australia
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 1:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Has anyone seen this other thread Roy speaks of, or is it top secret?
_________________
There has only ever been one man who was perfect, and they nailed Him to a cross. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jsturtlebuggy
Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2005
Posts: 4496
Location: Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 1:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Dan,
I have to disagree with you after building and racing VW engines in off road racing. Many VW engines have lasted at high RPMs in extreme conditions racing a 1,000 miles in Baja.
_________________
Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
scrivyscriv
Samba Electrician
Joined: October 04, 2011
Posts: 2922
Location: Memphis
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 1:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Congrats bro!! Nothing like being a new dad to change your whole outlook on life!
_________________
Robert in Memphis
Dünkelgrügen 1967 Java Green bug thread
Engine rebuild thread
If you're ever in the Memphis area, you are welcome to stop by for advice and help. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jpaull
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005
Posts: 3460
Location: Paradise, Ca
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| jsturtlebuggy wrote: |
Dan,
I have to disagree with you after building and racing VW engines in off road racing. Many VW engines have lasted at high RPMs in extreme conditions racing a 1,000 miles in Baja. |
+1
_________________
[email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg
Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
VWporscheGT3
Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2006
Posts: 2076
Location: Gardnerville, NV
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| jsturtlebuggy wrote: |
Dan,
I have to disagree with you after building and racing VW engines in off road racing. Many VW engines have lasted at high RPMs in extreme conditions racing a 1,000 miles in Baja. |
the main thing I believe is that the AC VW engine was never designed for sustained HIGH RPM usage, when I say High , more than originally intended, redline was what 4500 rpm? some of us are pushing north of 7 now, and for a case/crank that was not designed for those kind of rpms of course we are going to see failures. we always seem to point towards porsche, in this case I will again... look at the 911, the crank was supported at each throw.... if our VW's were designed in such a manner with the right materials also... it could have a longer life in upper rpms... they just simply weren't designed for it.
Just because many have survived sustained high rpm use, doesn't mean it was meant for it...
_________________
Schnell, SCHNELL!
I like being wrong, Because, it is another opportunity to learn. If you stop learning from your mistakes than what is the point?
If you have any questions about Forged ICON 4032 VW pistons just shoot me a line. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dan Ruddock
Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2012
Posts: 3594
Location: Sarasota, in my adopted state of Florida
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| jsturtlebuggy wrote: |
Dan,
I have to disagree with you after building and racing VW engines in off road racing. Many VW engines have lasted at high RPMs in extreme conditions racing a 1,000 miles in Baja. |
Off road cars don't have the constant high speed high load WOT operation that the Le mans track gives you. The Le mans track will tax almost any cooling system. Dan |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dan Ruddock
Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2012
Posts: 3594
Location: Sarasota, in my adopted state of Florida
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
+1. The Subaru also has a main between each rod also. The Gene berg crank was a crank that could also handle sustained high RPM. Dan
| VWporscheGT3 wrote: |
| jsturtlebuggy wrote: |
Dan,
I have to disagree with you after building and racing VW engines in off road racing. Many VW engines have lasted at high RPMs in extreme conditions racing a 1,000 miles in Baja. |
the main thing I believe is that the AC VW engine was never designed for sustained HIGH RPM usage, when I say High , more than originally intended, redline was what 4500 rpm? some of us are pushing north of 7 now, and for a case/crank that was not designed for those kind of rpms of course we are going to see failures. we always seem to point towards porsche, in this case I will again... look at the 911, the crank was supported at each throw.... if our VW's were designed in such a manner with the right materials also... it could have a longer life in upper rpms... they just simply weren't designed for it.
Just because many have survived sustained high rpm use, doesn't mean it was meant for it... |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
stan_tichomirov
Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2005
Posts: 1719
Location: San Francisco, CA
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Dan Ruddock wrote: |
Vw's are great cruisers and an short blasts here and there and they just fine.
Dan |
Pretty similar to a turbo-charged Subaru IMO -- easy-to-squeeze power out of, but not a BMW or Mercedes when it comes to sustaining it.
Stan
_________________
Aircooled.net
Jansen Enterprise
My 1835cc build
My budget 2276 build |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jpaull
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005
Posts: 3460
Location: Paradise, Ca
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 4:30 pm Post subject: Sustaning lots of power |
|
|
| stan_tichomirov wrote: |
| Dan Ruddock wrote: |
Vw's are great cruisers and an short blasts here and there and they just fine.
Dan |
Pretty similar to a turbo-charged Subaru IMO -- easy-to-squeeze power out of, but not a BMW or Mercedes when it comes to sustaining it.
Stan |
Its hard to praise a Mercedes or BMW for sustained reliability. They have their own reasons for breaking down for no good reason. The Mercedes might not even start depending on if the infrared transponder key even works. The Bmw or Mercedes both might not finish cause every electrical sensor under the sun could go out. The BMW Vanos(Variable timeing) system could go out and ruin the engine if the sensors dont cut your race short first.
_________________
[email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg
Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hooker
Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2004
Posts: 261
Location: Bend, Oregon
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:34 pm Post subject: heads? |
|
|
I still have the needle but can't seem to find the thread here anymore
_________________
2007 NHRA Division 6 Finals Champion air cooled Rabbit P/U rear engine compact/import class, 13.32 sec 1/4 Woodburn, Oregon
Pauter Big Block VW 2610 cc turbo mid engine roadster 9.69 sec @ 147 mph 1/4 PIR Oregon
I spent most my money on women and VW race cars. The rest I wasted. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jammied
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2014
Posts: 36
Location: Wyoming
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Wish Roy would ship my heads(I ordered some 042's)! I believe he has a good product.
That being said I only order outside the USA manufature is When the USA doesn't have the product I'm looking for like the 250cc and up chinese buggies and hipo parts for them, oh and the aircooled vw parts 
I do think after sales service could be better from MoFoCo, But as long as I can put my motor together before the end of summer it's all good |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wcfvw69 
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| jammied wrote: |
Wish Roy would ship my heads(I ordered some 042's)! I believe he has a good product.
I do think after sales service could be better from MoFoCo, But as long as I can put my motor together before the end of summer it's all good |
How long have you been waiting for the heads? Was you credit card charged the same day you ordered?
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jwvwguy
Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2012
Posts: 11
Location: So Cal. USA
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Congrats on joining fatherhood Roy,
My oldest turns 17 in December & my youngest is 13...
You'll quickly come to learn that becoming a dad helps a man gain a better perspective on life so I'm glad to see your dedication to a purpose & priorities are correctly aligned now. Only time will tell for all of the naysayers but I for one hope for your continued success, prosperity & look forward to seeing your future contributions to the ACVW market...
It's absolutely true that you cannot make everyone happy all of the time & one of these days...(most likely next year @ the rate I'm going)...I'll be calling to seek your advice & products for my bug engine build.
JW |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
