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codycr6
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2007
Posts: 14
Location: Memphis, TN
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 Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:47 am Post subject: suspension/steering help! |
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New to the off-road side of the forum, just bought a pretty nice rail that needs a little work. Someone converted it to an A-arm style suspension with canti-lever Fox Nitrogen charged air shocks. The spindles are swapped to opposite sides and uses front steer. The issue is that it has some slop and may have some bump steer problems. I am working on the transaxle now, but I did drive it down the road a piece and it seemed to move around a lot. It took a lot of corrections. I will try to get better pictures this weekend, but has anyone here worked on this style front end? The rear is swing axle with remote reservoir Fox shocks as well. Engine is a turbocharged 1915.
You can somewhat see the shocks in this picture:
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Multi69s
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Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 5364
Location: Lefty, CA
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codycr6
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2007
Posts: 14
Location: Memphis, TN
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| I really noticed it on gear changes, with as much power as it makes and all the plush suspension travel, it is quick to let the front end down on the gear change and then yank it back up as the engine comes on boost. I know there is some slack in the steering, so I am anxious to try to track it down. Thanks! |
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KrAzY-BaJa
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Joined: May 22, 2008
Posts: 1409
Location: Sacramento CA.
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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pics of the front arms would be nice 
from the veg pic your rack and pinion is mounted to hight, so lots of bumpsteer.
take the shocks off and cycle the front will tell you instantly
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codycr6
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2007
Posts: 14
Location: Memphis, TN
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| I took some pictures this afternoon, I will upload them tomorrow! Thanks! |
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codycr6
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2007
Posts: 14
Location: Memphis, TN
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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BUGGUTZ
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2007
Posts: 537
Location: Luzerne Mich
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 4:05 am Post subject: |
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| Interesting setup. Does the rack slide through those eyebolts on either end? |
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codycr6
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2007
Posts: 14
Location: Memphis, TN
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:06 am Post subject: |
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| BUGGUTZ wrote: |
| Interesting setup. Does the rack slide through those eyebolts on either end? |
Yes, but there is some leeway there. It really should have had some type of sleeve with less slack in it. My VW guy said we should flip the spindles/rack back around to convert it to rear steer, then try a set of Super Beetle steering dampers on the front. The lower A-arms are on something similar to a piano hinge, and there is some slack there because the inner shaft and outer sleeves are not a perfect match. |
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flashho
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Joined: August 11, 2012
Posts: 240
Location: Mulege, Baja
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:54 am Post subject: |
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Where are you going to drive this car? street, off road or dunes?
I would take a step back and look at some of the a arm conversion set ups to see how others have done this. There are many items that are questionable about your a arm set up. Strength of spindles, steering geometry, chain drive etc. |
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codycr6
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2007
Posts: 14
Location: Memphis, TN
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:59 am Post subject: |
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| flashho wrote: |
Where are you going to drive this car? street, off road or dunes?
I would take a step back and look at some of the a arm conversion set ups to see how others have done this. There are many items that are questionable about your a arm set up. Strength of spindles, steering geometry, chain drive etc. |
Probably as much on road as off. I have actually considered cutting it all off and just putting a nice complete off road link pin front end back on it with a nice rack. I considered something like this:
http://www.appletreeauto.com/WARRIOR-FRONT-BEAM-STAGE-3-A2002/
And possibly adding front brakes, in 4 lug, to match the rear. Install a shut off on the front brake line so I could turn them off when I wanted to off road, but use them when on the street. |
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flashho
Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2012
Posts: 240
Location: Mulege, Baja
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:27 am Post subject: |
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I would agree, cut it all off and start over with the new beam etc including a new steering column with universal joints and ditch the chain drive. I think you would basically have to rebuild and re enforce the a arm set up for any serious off road and I won't trust any of it for street use. Your travel is limited by the swing axle anyhow, so the a arm is overkill. I have a similar 6 + beam, but step2 set up, 10 towers, 2 1/4 arms, combo spindles etc. In hind sight the one you linked to, probably would have been just about as good. I drove a few races with out front brakes and it is good not having the front lock up, BUT you need front brakes for the street and set up properly, they are good for off road and racing too. Using CNC pedals with a balance bar lets you adjust the bias for your needs easily. If your budget allows, get the brakes when you purchase the beam etc. so you have a complete package that is compatible. You can install that kit or similar in short order and drive in confidence that the front end won't explode  holler if you need pics or anything.
added thought...If the rear was converted to IRS, then a quality, well designed a arm set up might make since. But the swing and a good beam set up will produce many fun days. |
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codycr6
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2007
Posts: 14
Location: Memphis, TN
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:46 am Post subject: |
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| flashho wrote: |
I would agree, cut it all off and start over with the new beam etc including a new steering column with universal joints and ditch the chain drive. I think you would basically have to rebuild and re enforce the a arm set up for any serious off road and I won't trust any of it for street use. Your travel is limited by the swing axle anyhow, so the a arm is overkill. I have a similar 6 + beam, but step2 set up, 10 towers, 2 1/4 arms, combo spindles etc. In hind sight the one you linked to, probably would have been just about as good. I drove a few races with out front brakes and it is good not having the front lock up, BUT you need front brakes for the street and set up properly, they are good for off road and racing too. Using CNC pedals with a balance bar lets you adjust the bias for your needs easily. If your budget allows, get the brakes when you purchase the beam etc. so you have a complete package that is compatible. You can install that kit or similar in short order and drive in confidence that the front end won't explode holler if you need pics or anything.
added thought...If the rear was converted to IRS, then a quality, well designed a arm set up might make since. But the swing and a good beam set up will produce many fun days. |
Thanks... that setup doesn't come with shocks or brakes, but they sell both and could probably make a good recommendation. I am thinking I will go back to standard steel wheels, maybe 15x8 and 15x5. I have a set of 35x12.50's that came with it, and I will probably go with a 7.00 15 on the front with a good off road tread. Recommendations on front tires? It already has a nice set of pedals and such, so I think I will just add a T and proportioning valve that allows it to shut all the way off to the front. I am also looking at adding cutting breaks, probably a single handle one in front of my shifter. Still working on repairing reverse in the transaxle and blueprinting the carburetor for blow through use, going to try to talk to Kawell on that today. |
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ORANGECRUSHer
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Joined: June 09, 2006
Posts: 2675
Location: West Coast (Michigan's)
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codycr6
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2007
Posts: 14
Location: Memphis, TN
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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| ORANGECRUSHer wrote: |
well no wonder streering is sloppy!  |
If your talking about the chain, there is actually very little slop there. Most of the issue seems to be with the front end/tie rods. I've seen Bug boxes much worse than the chain rack and pinion on it! |
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flashho
Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2012
Posts: 240
Location: Mulege, Baja
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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LOL orangecrush was looking at the tierods and eye bolts?
being you said street and off road, probably any AT tire will be ok on the front. Others can make more recommendations. I'm experimenting on my front tires running Pirelli AT sometimes and KM2 for racing. I may have a single lever Jamar cutting break for sale. Probably not a priority to install now. |
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///RA_IDAHO
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2014
Posts: 3
Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| i wouldn's be as worried about slop in the steering wheel as i would be about those welds... those are scary looking!!!! |
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codycr6
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2007
Posts: 14
Location: Memphis, TN
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Seems to be tough finding a good AT in that size, though! |
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20380
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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Linkpin...mounts are already there...
Dale
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thesatelliteguy
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2007
Posts: 1515
Location: Santa Rosa CA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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NO NO NO. Chain breaks, your fucked. Chain falls off, your fucked. Chain rusts and seizes up, your fucked. Sneez, your fucked. Chain-,yer fucked. Id ditch that set up ricky dick quick. Not to mention the eye bolts holding the tie rod. Who does this?
I hope i dont offend you. I didnt even really read the comments after those pics, i guess i really should. But there isnt a single nerve in my body that isnt screaming "NO!! HOLY FUCK, NO!".
Thats just the jankyist set up i have ever seen.
Slap that engineer and give him the eye bolts back.
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Brian
Samba Moderator
Joined: May 28, 2012
Posts: 8340
Location: Oceanside
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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As anyone who had a bike with baseball cards in the spoke:
Carry an extra chain and always have a flathead screw driver. I think the chain will do fine if the tension is okay.
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