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68-71 Bus to replace my 94 chevy and need a lil education
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xion214
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 11:05 am    Post subject: 68-71 Bus to replace my 94 chevy and need a lil education Reply with quote

Hope no one minds me making this topic here. My name is Greg I turn 28 here in the next couple of weeks. For a long time i have been wanting a bus. The 68-71 buses seem like what i am looking for. I lost my 94 chevy (A gift i got from my aunt for graduating navy boot camp back in 2009) in a large storm in cayce, SC. Sad saldy insurance only gave me 2k for my loss. Which i had to spend half of that on parts for my current project a 1972 Buick Skylark i plan to turn into a GS. The other went to a credit card a ex helped run up. Now here is what i am doing. While i am working on my Buick i am saving up for a bus. The reason I picked 68-71 is for simplistic design and the 1600cc motor. I would get a 72-79 but i have heard that finding parts for the 2000cc is a nightmare let alone costly. I also like the oval style taillights and body designs more on the 68-71 more than the rectangular taillights and body design of the 72-79. I am not a stranger to a tool box or checking valve clearance. (My 2012 ruckus requires me to do valve checks) I am not really wanting a camper or to do a full blown camper conversion. Maybe a fold down seat in the back for long trips. But what is a good ammount to save for a bus? I want something i can do very little work to or no work at all but i don't need something fully restored or a basket case. What would be some tools i will need to purchase when i get a bus? (VW specific tools) Is my choice in years a good idea or should i not be afraid of the 2000cc years? I thank you all for your time.
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notchboy
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Save at least 3 to 4k.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the '73 and later buses. Bigger engines and better crash protection. Better amenities all around as well. Most any part can still be had for the later engines with a bit of internet sleuthing, Yes a Type 4 can be expensive to rebuild compared to a Type 1, but a well rebuilt Type 4 should last several times as long as a Type 1 engine.
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xion214
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies yall. Wildthings is there a way to get a full rebuild kit in one sitting? How much more expensive would it be?
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xion214
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Out of curiosity if i had to rebuild a 2000cc how much more expensive will it be? Is it also more difficult to work on than the 1600cc?
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

xion214 wrote:
Out of curiosity if i had to rebuild a 2000cc how much more expensive will it be? Is it also more difficult to work on than the 1600cc?


A Type 4 engine is less apt to need crank or case work than a Type 1 engine so the cost of the bottom end may not be that much different. The real added cost of the Type 4 is in getting good head work.

A carbureted Type 4 is going to be about the same to work on as a Type 1. The exhaust of 1975-78 models is certainly worse, but most Type 4 stuff is just better in my opinion.
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xion214
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmmm if i am not mistaken 72-75 were all carb on the 2000cc. Am i right? Is it true the 2000cc is better going up hill?
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

xion214 wrote:
hmmm if i am not mistaken 72-75 were all carb on the 2000cc. Am i right? Is it true the 2000cc is better going up hill?


The 72-74 models had carbureted 1700 and 1800 engines.
The 1975 model had a FI 1800 engines and all later models had FI 2000cc engines. The 2000cc engines have about 30% more torque than a 1600 if I remember correctly.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes - a 2.0 climbs a hill much faster. But it also gets hotter.

The initial disc brake change came in 1971. The issue for most 1971 buses is that they have 500,000 miles or more on them now in 45 years of driving. They also have 45 years worth of rust. It is easy to fix a T1 engine when it broke so when they died some kid in the family took a crack at getting it going again. The later bays sometimes got up to 150,000 to 200,000 and died then sat for 15 years while someone kept saying some day I'll figure why it died - so there are more in better shape. I have been looking for a 1971 now for about 10 years and I haven't seen one under $15,000 that was worth the time and trouble. A completely restored like new 1971 will fetch $25,000 - $30,000 although few people have that kind of money to toss around - so the $3000 ones keep getting recycled.
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ned
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only on Thesamba.com are pancake engines so great. They are the real beginning of the end of busses in the states.
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williamM
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You might find a good hitop for cheaper than a tin top and they tend to have fewer miles on them and way less rust issues. AND they have a nifty hatch inside to access the motor from the top

I like the T4 pancake except for the weight and dropping the motor issues.
As mentioned- the bottom end is real robust and all but the heads seem to be way stouter than the T1's.

There are a few parts issues- first is the oil pump can be very hard to find.
The 1700/1800 factory carb set up is a complicated process, but run real well when done right and get pretty good milage.

Then the thermostat and flaps must be in there- unlike the t1 where they should be in there.

You do need a t4 mechanic to work on them- or at least seen one before- this is not an engine you want some one to learn on.

They came up with hydraulic lifters after the experimenters started using chevy lifters in them with limited success- So- depending on who might have been in the motor- ya never know what your going to get. it was a different cam/valve springs push rods so ya need to know- judging from the posts- there my not be much performance difference -

Watch for the center mount progressive carb mod- they were tricky to run right with the stock distributor and had no pre heat so would have icing problems and vaporization problems.

You will want to change all the fuel lines- even behind the fuel wall. Buses are notorious for having leaks which lead to fires. Shocked Anxious even with the new fuel lines you need a big fire extinguisher mounted where you can get it.

theres more, but my fingers are tired. Laughing
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SGKent Premium Member
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ned wrote:
Only on Thesamba.com are pancake engines so great. They are the real beginning of the end of busses in the states.


well - that is one way of looking at it. They were intimidating to most mechanics. High temps in air cooled engines is really what did it in - VW could see they would not be able to meet future smog laws - and the public was clamoring for more features in cars as well as more power.
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xion214
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the replies. WilliamM what is a hitop? Oh and thanks for the fuel line advice! Lol i have heard horror stories about the fuel line issues and VWs catching fire.

One thing i have in mind is i will be using it as a daily driver/work horse but also a road tripper on occasion. One of my trips will be from Columbia, SC to Cumberland MD. (I'm ex military and have friends i visit up there once a year).

The 1600cc motors i know you can find parts easy but if i bought a 2000cc and broke down on a road trip would it be easy to fix and buy parts at the parts store so i could get back on the road?

What are some of the major heat issues with the 2000cc?

Sorry if i am a question bug. I have automotive experience but not a lot of aircooled VW experience.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ned wrote:
Only on Thesamba.com are pancake engines so great. They are the real beginning of the end of busses in the states.


I thought they were great long before The Samba came along. Never could understand all the Type 1 guys who though carrying around a spare engine was normal. VW Transporters ran Type 4's from 1972 thru the 1983 1/2 model year a time period when the sale of Type 1 powered cars in the US dropped to zero because people were just sick of dealing with such short lived engines.

I can't help but think that if VW had thrown out the Type 1 once the Type 4 proved itself there might not be new air cooled cars and transporters still out there to be had to this day.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wild thing has a point- if they had not tried to make and idiot proof dual carb set up and had been able to open with a good working FI system things might have worked out for them. But was the new smog restrictions that killed AC not the design. Think they lost ground when emissions required higher temps and screwing with the efficiency to remove smog at the cost of hydrocarbons with a skewed slop in favor of american cars might have had something to do with the demise of the AC.
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andrewvwclassic
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just bought a 71 a few weeks ago it is nice my first bus. I got an earlier one like you for the bug style engines. You will need a special 71-72 front tin if you want the doghouse also if you get a 71 make sure it has a bumper they are expensive and hard to find on the aftermarket. make sure you match the carb, exhaust, and dissy combo they were different on a bus 1600. mid models were the year of the 019 and single tip header along with richer jetting. Basically be safe and run a 34 pict carb and if you plan on caming it an 009 and the single tip will get you good torque for hauling and climbing. dont make the same mistake I did anjd get a bug case and buy a bus body you need a special mount for them. get an as41 case if your bus is just a roller. good luck happy hunting. lol
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
ned wrote:
Only on Thesamba.com are pancake engines so great. They are the real beginning of the end of busses in the states.


I thought they were great long before The Samba came along. Never could understand all the Type 1 guys who though carrying around a spare engine was normal. VW Transporters ran Type 4's from 1972 thru the 1983 1/2 model year a time period when the sale of Type 1 powered cars in the US dropped to zero because people were just sick of dealing with such short lived engines.

I can't help but think that if VW had thrown out the Type 1 once the Type 4 proved itself there might not be new air cooled cars and transporters still out there to be had to this day.

Me too, having dealt with many aircooled aircraft engines my first look inside a type 4 (long before the Samba existed) was like a glimpse into the future, a complete redesign with a clean sheet of paper opposed to a nearly 40 year old design that had been bored and stroked as far as it could and had reached it's zenith (or past it even, the 40 horse is about as good as it gets for a type 1, not necessarily performance, but cooling, reliability and long life), VW adressed all the issues learned from the type 1 and if it wasn't for smog it likely could eveolved much further. Type 1 guys (like Ned) can stick with what they are comfortable with, nothing wrong with that, I prefer to be putting on the miles instead of dropping an engine for another repair or rebuild myself.

I like the type 1 too, but if forced to choose only one I'd pick the type 4.
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xion214
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm so there are some more advantages to the 2000cc? once again i thank everyone for their time and knowledge. You guys are awesome! I had a few questions with carbs and brakes. With the carbs i have noticed there are 34s and the 30/31s do the numbers mean CFM or Model Number? I also have one question about brakes with a disc brake conversion or a 71-79 is there a booster for the master cylinder like the one on my 1972 Buick Skylark? I thought with discs you had to run a booster with most vehicles
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carb numbers mean different things for different manufacturers but generally it's the size of the venturi, the Solex's VW use also use letters to denote different styles or sub systems in them.
North America delivered disc brake buses came with a vacuum assisted booster but that was an option in Europe, discs will work without a booster and drums can have a booster added (with a little work). Drum brakes work fine too as long as you adjust them every 3000 miles while you wait for the oil you are also changing to drain. Even disc brake buses still need the rears adjusted every 3000 miles.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:50 pm    Post subject: 68-71 Bus to replace my 94 chevy and need a lil education Reply with quote

the 2.0 is the biggest type 4, if you want torque you can still build a big
type 1 to get it, the type 1 works fine in a bug chassis, using one in a bus
is a slight reach, that is why the earlier bus guys build slightly bigger engines,
all that aerodynamic drag. The carb # are throat diameter in millimeters,
a 34mm Weber would be lucky to flow 170 cfm! The brake booster is present
in all the type 4 powered buses as well as the '71 disc-brake equipped model.
I prefer the type 4 later units, they can keep up with traffic, have power discs
and the suspension is essentially built as though it is a one-ton truck.
I drove one years ago to break it on purpose, all that happened was
one bent $40. tie rod and a $285. repair bill from the machine shop.
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