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_smoker_
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Joined: July 24, 2009
Posts: 108
Location: Farmville, VA
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 Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:18 am Post subject: Starter wiring issues |
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I'm baffled. I'm resurrecting an '86 automatic tiico. When I drug it home, the starter motor was seized, so I had it rebuilt. Now when I turn the key, I get nothing... I have constant power at the main wire to the starter, and ONE of the wires to the solenoid when the switch is in the 'start' position. What's the second wire on the solenoid for? The starter DOES spin when I put power directly to the solenoid.
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geo_tonz
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Joined: August 01, 2012
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Location: Courtenay, BC, CANADA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:50 am Post subject: |
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Ignition switch?
Section 27.13 has a nice Starter troubleshooter.
You can bypass the ignition switch to see if it's the probalem.
From a thatvwbusguy post:
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Here is the procedure to crank the starter via the ignition switch socket. I copied this from a post a while back and can't remember who originally wrote it at this point. Anyway, here goes.......
Ignition Switch Bypass - Jumper Wire Starting Method:
Remove the plastic cover from the steering column and pull the black socket off the bottom of the ignition switch.
Insert a jumper wire between the large red wire and the solid black wire (a bent paper clip works well, but will get hot, so be careful). You should hear the fuel pump run at this point.
If you hear the fuel pump, leave the first jumper (large red to black) in place and insert another jumper wire between the large red wire and the red/white wire. This is your starter wire.
The engine should turn over at this point. If the engine starts, remove the big red to red/white jumper wire immediately. If you don't remove this jumper, the starter will continue to run just like holding the key in the start position.
This is essentially how to hotwire a Vanagon, but since the ignition steering lock is still in place, you can easily defeat any would be Vanagon heist by leaving the wheels turned into the curb when you park... |
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 "Ron Burgundy": 1991 Vanagon Multivan (Weekender) 2.1L Auto - Driver/Camper
Last edited by geo_tonz on Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:08 am; edited 1 time in total |
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insyncro
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Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:05 am Post subject: |
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| Ignition switch, proper grounding? |
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Wildthings
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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The extra spade terminal on the solenoid is used to supply the trigger for the fuel pump relay when cranking. The wiring for this extra spade doesn't show correctly in the wiring diagram.
Last edited by Wildthings on Fri Aug 22, 2014 4:44 am; edited 1 time in total |
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insyncro
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Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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Adding a ground from the lower starter attachment post to the chassis is recommended for all Vanagons.
Super easy to do when messing with the starter for any reason. |
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_smoker_
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Joined: July 24, 2009
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Location: Farmville, VA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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Round 1: I went through the ignition switch troubleshooting process. Looks like that isn't the culprit. Going over the grounds next.
One interesting thing I noticed... when I turn the key to 'on', it sends power to the fuel pump to prime, but when I turn it to 'start', it isn't sending anything to the pump.
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_smoker_
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Location: Farmville, VA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| insyncro wrote: |
| Adding a ground from the lower starter attachment post to the chassis is recommended for all Vanagons. |
Done. I also cleaned the ground from the front of the trans to the chassis. Forgive the noob question, but what else am I looking for as far as grounds go? Not that I think it will fix my problem, but I might as well cover all my bases.
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crazyvwvanman
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Joined: January 28, 2008
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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Don't worry about that. The aircooled vans used an extra wire from the starter to feed the fuel pump relay but watercooled Vanagons do not.
WBX vans run the pump for a second two at power on and then run it whenever the ECU see pulses from the distributor hall unit. In other words if it sees that the engine is turning the ECU turns on the FP relay
Mark
| _smoker_ wrote: |
....
One interesting thing I noticed... when I turn the key to 'on', it sends power to the fuel pump to prime, but when I turn it to 'start', it isn't sending anything to the pump. |
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_smoker_
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:08 am Post subject: |
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Well after going over my grounds, I ran a wire directly from the starter solenoid to the ignition switch. Bingo. So I guess the wire from the switch to the solenoid is frayed or chewed somewhere just enough so that it still shows 12V, but cuts out when a load is applied. I can't hardly wait to track that down. 
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1vw4x4
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:33 am Post subject: |
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This is exactly the symptom one would fine that needed a hard start kit.
To be sure measure the voltage when trying to start the engine. You should see the voltage drop considerably.
| _smoker_ wrote: |
| Well after going over my grounds, I ran a wire directly from the starter solenoid to the ignition switch. Bingo. So I guess the wire from the switch to the solenoid is frayed or chewed somewhere just enough so that it still shows 12V, but cuts out when a load is applied. I can't hardly wait to track that down. |
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Terry Kay
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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Just for grins, check out the neutral safety swicth on the shift lever--
It may be as a simple adjustment there.
The swicth may not be closing, and allowing the signal to get to the starter-
Pretty common issue.
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Last edited by Terry Kay on Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:33 am; edited 1 time in total |
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_smoker_
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 6:38 am Post subject: |
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I guess I should google 'vanagon hard start kit'. I've owned and worked on plenty of VW's, but these vans are clearly a different animal.
And if this thread could NOT turn into a pissing match, that'd be great.
k, thanks.
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Terry Kay
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 6:52 am Post subject: |
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I don't think you need the hard start relay.
Have you checked & verified in fact you have power at the solinoid from the signal wire?
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_smoker_
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:07 am Post subject: |
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| Terry Kay wrote: |
I don't think you need the hard start relay.
Have you checked & verified in fact you have power at the solinoid from the signal wire? |
Yes, I thought I mentioned it earlier. It shows 12V at the signal wire, but it's obviously losing it under load. Today's project: trace the wire back till I find a problem.
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insyncro
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:53 am Post subject: |
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Well put Jay.
I will contact you when I have another Carat with an auto and cruise control at the shop for you to check out and offer a Auto, Cruise version of your harness.
Anything I can do to help you would be my pleasure. |
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thatvwbusguy
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:57 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Dylan. I am sure it won't take more than a few minutes to sort out a simple solution.
Have a great weekend!
Jay
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Jay Brown
'85 Zetec Westfalia
Newmarket, NH
If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
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EverettB 
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1vw4x4
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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smoker_
Send me privet mail and I can help you in no time. ..... obviously I can't do
it here with out insult..
| EverettB wrote: |
Moderator note:
I cleaned up some posts in this thread and sent a few warnings to stop attacking other members.
Please "report" any further BS from these members. |
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thatvwbusguy
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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No worries, he has already been well taken care of.
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Jay Brown
'85 Zetec Westfalia
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If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
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