Anyone have good luck getting a title? '56 Oval basket case

[tasmotorsports]

Hello,
Went to a swap meet yesterday and a fellow had a '56 Beetle there on a trailer with a engine, and quite a bit of work needed. I've been after a oval for a long time and not that this was a perfect candidate it was something within my league.

Offered to swap a '67 Triumph Chopper for the car and I'm pretty sure we can seal the deal but the car has no title, and has not been registered here in Indiana.

The current owner says it's no problem to get a title, but I was wondering if anyone has had good luck with such a thing?

I see lots of methods in getting a title but has anyone actually had good luck and felt the trip was worth the effort?

Worried about a heartache later, though I really would love to save this car.

Thanks!
Terry

[Gary]

If getting a title is "no problem", then tell him to get a title if he wants to make the trade; otherwise, walk away.

You're falling into the trap that catches a lot of people - falling in love with a car and thinking it *has to be saved*.

Don't.

Don't spend thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours restoring a vehicle because you just had to do it, and don't fall for the seller's line. For all you know, that vehicle has changed hands several times over and could end up being listed in a stolen vehicle database. If that happens, then you're the one left holding the bag with zero recourse. You will then be out two cars rather than one (remember, you said you'd trade a vehicle for the Oval).

Unless you are apprised of all necessary statutory requirements for obtaining a title for a vehicle that does not have one, then walk away. Even then, you would be wise to have the VIN run against a stolen vehicle database before executing the trade.

One last don't: Don't fall in love with physical items. Doing so will cloud your judgement and can lead to a lot of aggravation down the road.
_________________
West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943)

[tasmotorsports]

Thanks Gary,
I was kind of thinking the same thing in regards to the "no problem" to get a title statement. I would think having a title would make it a smooth easy sale, and if easy, well worth the effort.

Bummed and appreciative of your insight, and opinion.

Terry

[Gary]

I wouldn't count it out unless the current owner balks at getting a title. My advice would be to verify he wishes to trade straight across, and if so then he must offer an equitable trade. I am going to assume that you have a clear title to the Triumph. The seller of the Oval does not appear to have clear title; therefore, it is not an equitable trade. So, I would suggest you inform him that you will trade only on the condition that he has a current, clear title for the Oval. The onus should be on the seller to provide title and not the buyer. The only time I would not worry about clear title when buying is if the subject vehicle will be used for parts.

Try that approach before throwing in the towel; otherwise, if the seller is resistant then walk away.
_________________
West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943)

[0nebadbug]

I disagree on the run away thing.

My son & I have done the Bonded title route twice now here in Illinois one for a '66 beetle and one for our '57 Ladawri... it's pretty much painless & simple.

Here is how it works in Illinois, you would have to find out what your state, Indiana, requires to obtain one....

The first time we did it on my son's '66 we even leveraged it on completing the transaction with the seller and even deducted it from the final sale. He had the bonded title & full registration so it was legal to drive in about 30 days after application.

About the only thing to be aware of is here in Illinois it takes 24 months for the bond to expire (Indiana may be shorter or longer, I don't know). During this time you cannot sell the car, well you can but it would be a PITA. So what does the bonding a title actually do? During this time the only way anyone can lay claim to the vehicle they would have to have actual physical possession of the original title as well as it's last registration in hand and then they would have an option to buy the entire amount of the bond from you as well as pay for any and all work that you or anyone has done to it after the bond was issued, so you simply keep every single receipt of every nut, bolt & goodie installed. And when you have a $5,000.00 Surety Bond on a vehicle & $7,000.00 in parts and labor to fork up? They will most surely walk away with their tales between their legs. And if they do want to buy the bond alone but not the parts? you then get to pull everything off it and basically they wind up with an expensive empty shell on drums... unless you bought drums then you ca take those off too so now that can't even push it out of your driveway and need a moving company and a wrecker to move it... well... I think you get the idea...

After the bond expires you got a brand spanking new original title.
_________________
::: Slowoval ::: LaDawri Sebring ::: '61 Creampuff ::: Dust Storm '66 :::

[tasmotorsports]

Was it pricey?

I see some charging near 900 dollars which an additional 900 included into what it will take to get this rolling would be tuff to justify.

[0nebadbug]

Yeah title service companies seriously jack up the charges mostly due to the fact most people are just to impatient to figure out how to do it yourself and also alot of people have a need it now mentality and don't want to wait thru the bonding process itself...

Not including the Registration & Plate fees? They averaged $400.00 each, the majority of the cost was for the $5,000.00 surety bond we had done up thru our insurance company and then the states paperwork fee which was minimal...

Also when the bond matures & falls away and you get the shiny new title you should get the majority of original cost of the bond back (but not every state is the same so...) We just rolled it back into insurance on the car...
_________________
::: Slowoval ::: LaDawri Sebring ::: '61 Creampuff ::: Dust Storm '66 :::

[Mike Fisher]

I've sold 2 '57 oval ragtops without titles. One of them is finished and cruising around Vancouver, WA. The other one is still under construction in Idaho.
_________________
https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold

Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey

[VW_Buggsy]

I re-titled two cars, a bus and a beetle, via a title company called Broadway title. This was maybe ten years back and at the time they charged only about $150 for the service. Their price has gone up CONSIDERABLY since then when last I checked. Anyway the actual service only took a couple weeks and was perfectly successful. It was all done through bills of sale through a non title state.

There are other competitors out there doing the same but when I last checked I think the lowest price I found was like $300 or so. Just Google "title services" or something like that.

Another option is to get the car for the oval body but find a different, titled, chassis. Not really ideal but it's an option.

[BWD]

I bought a bug without a title, had the police verify the vin#'s, took the paperwork to the CA DMV, they looked up the #'s, nothing on the books. I paid the fees, I forget how much, but it wasn't much. They gave me my new title and plates, that where I got mad, new plates, I don't need no stinkin' new plates! I have the OG black and yellows I told them. They said, OK, show us the title showing those plates go with that car! DAMN!
_________________
BWD
JHC
member #2850
1966 Beetle
_____________________________

[tasmotorsports]

I went for it.

There's a 1956 Oval setting outside and we're very happy together!

Thanks everyone!

Terry

[drscope]

Since you went ahead and pulled the trigger on this one already I'm a little late to the party, but here's a few things that may interest other people in your situation.

First and maybe most importantly, every state does things differently. So this can create problems for you if you listen to advice from someone in a different state and figure you just need to do what they did.

Second, just because it worked for someone else does NOT mean it will work for you. Even if it is similar circumstances in the same state, there are often things that go differently from one transaction to another.

Third, unless a person has GOOD PAPER in hand for the car, they are NOT the legal owner! So you run a big risk of buying a car from someone who may not be legally entitled to sell it.

This also leaves big question marks in the history of the car. Was it stolen and hidden away for years? Was it abandoned by a previous owner, but never legally changed hands? Are there DMV fees piling up on that VIN that will need to be paid before any sort of registration is issued? Is this car part of an estate dispute or inheritance war between relatives?

You just don't know.

Several years ago a friend of mine bought a 57 Chevy with no title. The seller claimed he had purchased the car but never had the paper work changed to his name. He had lost the title and didn't have any contact information for the previous owner.

It turned out the previous owner had the car in storage in a garage. He didn't pay his garage rent and as part of the eviction process the car was put outside. It somehow got removed and stored away for several years by someone else, while the legal owner tried to find what had happened to it.

I don't know many more details on this one, but I was there when the cops put the bracelets on the "seller" and stuffed him in the back of the patrol car.

The car was taken from my friend by the state police and he never got reimbursed by the "seller" for the money he paid out.

Buying a car without a title is always a crap shoot. And it can bring a lot of unpleasantness into your life. Many folks have purchased cars this way, then put a lot of time, effort, money and love into them, only to run into problems because of paper work issues latter.

Even with good paper, you really don't know what you are getting. A couple years ago there was a very long thread on this site from a guy in California who had a 63 (I think). He had purchased the car with good paper, and then poured a lot of work and money into the car over several years.

One night the Swat Team arrived at his house because the car was reported stolen by someone who was the previous owner 3 or 4 owners ago. He lost the car for a long time and had serious legal bills pile up as a result of trying to get the car back and clear his name.

Those kinds of things can get very expensive and be a life altering experience even if it turns out you are in the clear.

So it's often best to cover YOUR ass and make sure you have what appears to be good clear title from the person representing themselves as the legal owner.

In this case if I really wanted the car, I think I would have given the seller (notice I didn't say owner) $100 as a deposit and told them to use this to obtain a title before the deal gets closed. You may even offer to pay a reasonable additional amount for him to take care of the "no problem" title issue.

I hope this works out well for you! But I would also encourage YOU to get a title in hand before you spend any time, money or effort on this car that may never be yours!
_________________
Mother Nature is a Mean Evil Bitch!

[tasmotorsports]

Great info!
Thanks! Have started the process and so far so good. Starting with the local DMV where even there I am getting mixed opinions, but optimism.

The VIN is 1-0970767 and I believe this confirms it as a '56 built in August?

Not in a huge hurry as there is other projects here for me, and one way or another I'll put a Oval on the lift, and with a little luck this will be the one.

[VDubTech]

Register it in VT. Take the VT registration to your DMV and get a title in your state. Easy.

www.benboyle.com
_________________
First Trip in the RustyBus:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=279077&highlight=

[tasmotorsports]

That's an option,
We will exhaust every attempt at locating a title and if it cannot be found we were recommended to petition the state(Indiana)to issue a title. Looks like I'll have a couple hundred dollars invested.

http://www.decaturcounty.in.gov/clerk/pdf_vehicle_..._forms.pdf

[sixfootdan]

I always hate classified ads that claim how easy it is to get a title, Like Gary mentioned. Keep us posted on how long it takes and the total cost when finished. Threads about lost titles come up all the time and this would be a good thread for a testimonial.
_________________
Schrodinger's cat walked into a bar and it didn't.


GO SEAHAWKS!!!

[morymob]

Good luck, been there never again. Does depend on your states laws also if the person there has at the least the common sense of a gnat. Every one, all diff, gave a diff ans/rules, no one knows what the h€€€ they r doing. Only buy one a s a parts car, dont even see that
In the future.

[0nebadbug]

[dwalters1]

You might check with your insurance agent to see if they can do title bonds. If so, that's the best way to go. I am an insurance agent and I do these bonds occasionally, and have had to do them for myself a couple times.

It's usually a bond in the amount of one and a half times the vehicle value, and with most companies I've seen here in NC the premium has come out to about $100.

Then you'll usually just have to get a DMV inspector to check it out to verify serial number and make sure it hasn't been stolen and then you'll be good to go.
_________________
Dalton

1965 VW Beetle
1973 VW Beetle (Standard)
1974 VW Super Beetle Convertible

[tasmotorsports]

I'm going to give it a fit,
DMV was closed today but I'll try and get up there this week to see them in person.

I'll keep everyone posted on the outcome. I've fixed a few that weren't worth fixing, and was really happy at the end of the day, but the paper chase is something new to me.

If it was easy everyone would have a bug in their garage right?

Take Care!

Terry