Ok, this camber adjustment has now annoyed me....

EVfun · Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 3:18 pm Post subject:

I here repeatedly how adjusting the upper and lower bars into conflict effects the effective stiffness (rate.) Can someone explain how, and how to use that? What adjustment stiffens and softens the effective rate?

I'm about to pop for a 2 inch narrowed beam to get the tires under my mini-t fenders. I will be keeping things stiff because I will be loosing the bump stops (K&L) and don't want to strike the fenders. These buys wait for fall because winter is the season for upgrades.
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VOLKSWAGNUT · Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 3:57 pm Post subject:

VWCOOL · Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 4:11 pm Post subject:

yeah lets a get another STANDARD GOOD UNMODIFIED SECOND-HAND BEAM WITH STANDARD OIL SHOCKS into this car to correct the camber.

Then he can ask a few simple questions about softening it by removing the half-leaf torsion bars in the top and bottom beams

BL3Manx · Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:16 pm Post subject:

You adjust the beam with the weight off the wheels, one up, one down. You lower it back on the ground and it will settle to the point where the stack you adjusted up just begins to carry some load. From that point onward both stacks are working in their normal direction and since torsion bars/leaves have a linear spring rate, both springs require the exact same torque per degree of rotation/deflection.

As soon as you put it on the ground the tuning is gone.

joescoolcustoms · Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:52 pm Post subject:

I have to disagree.

What the miss-match setting does is allow the rebound to unload at a different rate, which makes a big difference.

I have two adjusters on my Manx that I drove across the US and back last month. When I put the adjusters in, I set them so at their lowest point, they wold be in stock location and all the adjustment is for raising, (lifted buggy with Thing Spindles, longer rear arms, notched spring plates).

My first test drive was with both adjusters set at half of their adjustment equally. Jarred my dental fillings out, felt every tar strip. Came back home, checked the engine for leaks, belt tightness and so forth. Then, dropped the bottom adjuster to it's lowest setting, (stock setting) and adjusted the top to it's most highest setting, ending up with the same overall height of the buggy. 30 minutes later, ran the same road with the same tire pressure. Oh my, what a difference!

I never touched them again. Every one who has either driven or rode in my Manx has commented on the very soft ride quality.

I have even went so far as to draw out the suspension, made the arch's and calculated the pressure based on a linear spring scale, and the math says it will not work and the ride will be the same, but it changes the ride quality dramatically. It has to be the rebound unloading at a different rate than stock.

Vince, surfNC does this to his buggy's he builds, but slightly differently. He cuts, turns and rewelds only one tube on the beam of the center sections about 3/8 inch leaving the other at it's stock height. He too states it changes the ride quality softening it substantially.
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Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race

Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.

Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone

BL3Manx · Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 7:14 pm Post subject:

Maybe so, I've done it too and noticed no difference. I believe removing leaves is the best way to do it. I think the biggest problem with removing leaves is the leaves aren't marked left and light and they get turned around and when that happens they break and then people blame it on removing leaves.

Jerry39218 · Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 7:24 pm Post subject:

Guess I have some decisions to make.

Which way to go with this.

I can't find a completely built beam spindle to spindle with adjusters so I may have to piece meal one together.

funds and time... have another half dozen or so shows coming up so I may just repair (bandaid) the loose side and let it ride for awhile.

VOLKSWAGNUT · Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:40 am Post subject:

Its really a whole new topic... no hijack intended.. Embarassed

BL3Manx · Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 8:36 am Post subject:

I've done it both ways, staggering the adjustment on the two stacks and replacing a one stack with a Formula Vee anti-sway bar.

When I used the sway bar/1 stack of leaves I saw the front end dropped farther when I took it off the jacks than when I staggered the adjustment on two stacks and then took it off the jacks.

That tells me the second stack is starting to be twisted as soon as its full weight is on its wheels.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I know for a fact,
fewer leaves = softer suspension.

VOLKSWAGNUT · Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 8:47 am Post subject:

Yes with the FV anti-sway bar in one beam.. its no longer a spring helping ... so yes it will ride lower... and softer..
(The weight is now only on 1 spring pack...)

Yes 2 spring packs will hold more weight than 1 by itself.. Not disputing that..
Even with mis matched adjustment..

Yes less leaves = softer ride... It has too..

.
_________________
aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited

bim55 · Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 11:03 am Post subject:

I really dont recall a softer ride using the old style Selecta-Drop (see picture above) if you were lowering the car and that's where the dual adjusters would help.

All I recall is the ride getting harder and harder the more you cranked on it to lower the front end down, and that was good and what you wanted when auto-xing.

Unwinding it to a normal height softened the ride on the way home.
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VOLKSWAGNUT · Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 11:12 am Post subject:

Only if you dont cut the bump stops off on a link pin beam.. or start bottoming out the ball joints in the slot travel... will the ride get harsher when you start loosening up one spring.. while the other takes more load..

I know guys... it seems to make no sense.... Not arguing.. with anyone about this... Just trying to show that it is something that does work...

I like to think about it this way in simple physics. ... compress a spring 1 inch versus 6 inches..
The reaction and potential energy is greater on the one thats most compressed...
Torsion bars...springs...work the same way...just instead of compressing.. its twisted energy.. ..
If you twist one with the arm 6 inches... it has more potential energy than the one twisted 1 inch..

Its obviously a topic that SHOULD have its own..
Everyone in entitled to a different opinion.. and theory..

.
_________________
aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited

joescoolcustoms · Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 11:30 am Post subject:

In addition to running my spring packs mis-adjusted, I also run 21 mm rear torsion bars. Oil only shocks on the front and gas charged shocks on the rear. Very smooth ride.

I will offer rides to anyone interested at MOTB in 1 1/2 month's.
_________________
Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race

Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.

Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone

Jerry39218 · Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 6:39 pm Post subject:

I did not get a chance to snap some pics of something I noticed on my beam...

There are two welded in tubes connected to the lower beam going back to the pan...they are connected on each side right where a tow bar would connect.

So, on this beam, there are 4 bolts and 2 welded in tubes holding it on the car.

Also, in the center of the upper and lower beams there are nuts...not sure what size tho. Are these adjusters maybe? Or do all beams have those?

Will try to post pics tomorrow when I have more light.

Needless to say, I think replacing the beam is out. So now I'm curious about trying to fix this one by replacing whatever parts I can. Arms, springs, etc.

VOLKSWAGNUT · Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:40 am Post subject:

joescoolcustoms · Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:31 am Post subject:

Jerry39218 · Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 3:24 pm Post subject:

you assume I don't open a manual? really?

I only post on here when my experience and the manuals are NOT helping... there are LOADS of issues I have taken care of already... but some things aren't coming together for me as THIS buggy is an enigma

Jerry39218 · Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 3:30 pm Post subject:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

joescoolcustoms · Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:37 pm Post subject:

Try this simple thing first so you know exactly what you have.

Pinch Weld to pinch weld measurement. These are of my Sears Rascal known to be stock beam.

_________________
Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race

Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.

Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone


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