My 1963 Ghia: The Journey Begins: Photos & Questions

[Mscdman]

Hi all. I'm Paul. I was advised by the moderator to start a single thread for my ghia with all my questions as different subjects but under a main thread, so here goes.

Let's start of with some details of my journey:

Basics: Purchased my 1963 Ghia about a month and a half ago from an ad here on the Samba but had been looking for one for about 8 months. Here in Colorado, they aren't too easy to come by. My criteria for purchase was:

*Rust free - I looked at a dozen that had rusted out floor pans, rockers, and heater channels. I was advised to stay away from any if this as the body repairs would be $$$$

*Good body - I wanted one that had a body in good shape

*Convertible - Had to be a convertible

*Close to OEM/Factory - I wanted something as close to factory as possible

*Upgraded engine - I previously test drove an early 60s Ghia and the experience almost turned me off from buying a Ghia all together. The car had no power at all and I was literally terrified to even merge onto oncoming traffic for fear I wouldn't make it. Conversely, I test drove a 70s one and the experience was far more enjoyable & I felt safer

*Pre-70's Bumper & Styling - While I liked the engine performance of the 70's I did not like the 70s style tail lights, interior, or tail lights.

*Color - I pretty much wanted anything but red or black. I dislike red cars very much unless I am driving a Ferrari and I own a black car already and it hides the lines of a nice car too much IMO

*Price - I wanted to keep my total initial investment around 15K

Finding the right color was giving me fits. I found several very nice examples here in CO and in CA that fit all the criteria above but they were pretty much all red. In my mind, while that meant I had a very nice starting example for 16-19K, I would have to put in at least another 5K for an even decent paint job = ~25K which was way more than I wanted to spend for now.

Results: After much searching I finally found something that seemed to meet all of what I was looking for minus the color, some of the body requirements, and the OEM factory look. While this seems like it only met some of the requirements above, the car was priced well enough such that I could afford to make the paint and body work fit into my budget (or so I remained and remain hopeful!!!) to get it where I wanted. So here is what I started with - my first VW purchase and foray into this Ghia world:

Pretty crazy huh? The previous owner had painted his original dark green Ghia satin black to look like a rat rod. Let's see where I fit in with my requirements:

Good Body - Good start as there were no dents, however as I am now finding out there are/were issues with raised fenders (now being fixed to get properly to get back to OEM), and missing exterior trim. For me this criteria was only half met, but since there was no serious dents or missing major body parts I was ok with this.

Close to OEM - Not even close. I knew I was going to have to do a lot to get this back as close as possible to stock.

Convertible- Check!

Rust Free - Check!! The floor pans, heater channel, and rocker panels, were completely rust free. One of the best ones I looked at in this regard.

Upgraded Engine - Check! Complete new engine rebuild with upgraded displacement and dual carbs for that extra 70s power I wanted but from an early 60s car.

Pre-70s Styling - Check!

Color - Nope. I didn't want black or red. But it did give me a blank canvas to start with

Price - Check. It fell in my budget allowing me enough money to do what I wanted to it to restore.

So I took the plunge. I am currently in the process of restoring her, and she is at the body shop now. I am finding out little pieces here and there that concern me (hence all of my questions with more to come!!)

But all in all, I am excited to see how she turns out in the end. So far, I have learned a lot and have a lot more to learn. I will plan on using this thread to post all my questions on the journey toward restoration so be prepared and I will post photos once I have her all done.

[Mscdman]

Here are the headlight assemblies I took out from my car. Are these the correct hole locations to be mounted into the headlight bucket for a 1963?

It looks like one of my assemblies has an aftermarket hole drilled in the 12 o'clock position but the other does not.

Which holes in the headlight assembly exactly are supposed to hold this to the tabs in the body on the headlight bucket?? Can it really only be the bottom hole at the 6:30 position or is something incorrect with my assembly?

[J1]

If a convertible wasn't a requirement, congrats that a car that met your other requirements happened to be a convertible! I get the sense your thread is going to be a nice thorough documentation so I'm looking forward to it. On the other hand, it doesn't seem like it NEEDS all that much work!
_________________
1971 Ghia coupe. Assume I know nothing and you'll be pretty darn close to the truth.

[Mscdman]

Oops!! Convertible was a huge requirement. Thanks for reminding me - gonna edit that now!!

[tri356]

Hi,
Mscdman, I haven't caught your name, but, regardless, here goes:

On the subject of your back seat, the information to work off of is Lisa's. Both her pictures of the earlier and slightly later cabriolet's are correct.

a) you need to have the hinges she shows to set the correct height.
b) yes, one picture shows a bit of a gap while the other one shows almost none, but the difference is not that great. Notice how the 59 cab seat shows a couple of folds? I'd say with the car being older, the chances of the padding being matted down are greater. There should basically be no gap.
b) There is definitely a post on the rear set back, with rubber straps on the parcel tray and on the carpeted piece just above the tunnel. KGPR is incorrect if they told you otherwise. Also, look at the rear seat back of her 59 cab. It shows an indented/divoted area all around the post. It looks as if your seat back is so overstuffed that the divot is nowhere to be seen. A better shot of it can be seen here:

http://milepost105.smugmug.com/Cars/1962-VW-Karman...;k=xK9FMvR

There *are* differences in the rear seat area between a 59 cab and a 63 cab (carpeting being one of them - the pattern changed around the August 62 timeframe), but as far as hinges, gap and posts are concerned, they're the same.

Mike

[Mscdman]

Hi Mike. I'm Paul.

Thanks for the information. I ordered the correct hinges which I think once installed correctly, should lower the seat back down to the correct location.

I'll post before and after photos to my thread once I start.

[Mscdman]

Are painted VW emblems on the hub caps the standard or are they left just chrome? I'm guessing chrome.

[tri356]

Here's a picture of a '63 ghia, taken from that period. I'd say you're safe going with the painted hubcaps:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=859354

As far as the seats are concerned, Nicholas is correct - there are coupe vs. cabriolet differences. Take a look at these threads:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=287425

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=373964

to get the dimensional differences between coupe and cabriolet seats.

However, both Nicholas' pictures, AND, the original coupe pictures (from the old bug link) do show the correct carpet pattern for your car. Notice that compared to Lisa's '59 cab picture, the carpeting is different on either side of, and below, the rear seat.

Mike

[John Moxon]

If you're going the painted hubcap route here's the easy way: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=858763
and http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=429827
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John.
Judson Supercharger Information on The Samba
My 1958 Shorrock Supercharged Karmann Ghia
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

[Mscdman]

Thanks Mike!! That's exactly what I was looking for. The cab rear seat back should be 16.5 inches tall according to that post. I'll use that to measure mine and make sure it's the correct size.

Now the other question I have is can you tell me how far up in inches the cab triangular seat hinges should be placed up the seat back?

I can't see my holes due to re upholstery, and would prefer not to remove it to find out.

[sputnick60]

[Mscdman]

Thanks Nicholas.

So that I understand what you are saying correctly (and I think I do), you are saying

1) fold the seat back down essentially and line up the top edge of the seat back to the seat bottom front so that when the seat back is down it lines up and doesnt stick out past the seat bottom

2) From that location, drop in the triangular hinge where you have your 3 hjinge holes and then mark on the side of the seat back where that location is (it looks to be a few inches up).

3) Remove seat back, attach hinge to seat back proper location previosuly marked

4) attach hinge to body location 3 holes in your photo

5) Viola!

PS - Nicholas that color is sharp. It looks similar to the color I am doing. What color did you go with?

[sputnick60]

That's almost it.

I'd recommend a check for existing holes just in case what you think are new holes run into the old ones and mess up the alignment.

Lets assume you've peeled back the upholstery a little and found the old holes.

Lay the seat in as described then screw in one screw in the metal followed by one screw in the wood. Do the same on the other side. Gently open the seat back to check it lines up OK. If all fine do all the other screws.

Use contact adhesive to glue down the upholstery.

Nicholas
_________________
'66 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet...
'65 Porsche 356C Coupe...
2005 Mecedes Benz C180 Kompressor Estate
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

[Mscdman]

At the body shop - work beginning...this could be awhile

[Mscdman]

Next question: What are the period correct front turn signals for a 63? I think they are clear, but mine are amber. When did they change from clear to Amber?

[motorhead364]

Mine are clear.
_________________
63 ghia coupe

[Mscdman]

Thanks motor - it looks like I've seen some clear and some Amber but from what I can tell you are right - clear is factory for my year. Just curious when they changed.

PS - bored this evening so decided to re-vinyl my old ratty looking hinge covers. Next up parcel tray.

[Mscdman]

Update: Well....this experience has SUCKED so far. it has been nothing short of a money pit and a stressful nightmare. Hoping there is starting to get light at the end of the tunnel.

The car was previously at the 1st body shop starting in July 2014- they sucked and literally did NOTHING in 2 months on the car - admittedly it was a MAACO. I know I know - wrong place for the kind of work I needed done. But at the time, all I wanted to do was re-spray the car.

After 2-3 months at MAACO with almost zero work done, I had the car towed to a 2nd "VW specialist" restoration shop realizing there was a lot of metal/welding/rust work that needed to be done and that it would require a specialist in VW restoration. So I took it to La Bouf Fabrication in Aurora CO. DO NOT USE THIS SHOP. PERIOD. I was lied to about time frames from the start and was ripped off for 3K of shotty work to repair the nose, side, rockers and rear quarter panels.

Was told by the owner "Maddy" when dropping off the car that he would work within my time frames. From Sept 2014 - Feb 2014 not even 20% of the car was completed all the while he was brinigng in other cars and working them AFTER he had mine. Again DO NOT USE THIS SHOP. Every thing he has done needs to be redone according to the new shop. I am looking at getting a lawyer to get back some of my money.

Anyway, I have now towed my car to what I believe to be a reputable shop in CO Springs. It is costing even more but I am already seeing more progress in 3 days from the new team than 4 months of "La Bouf Fabrication" work.

Here is the latest update - stripped down to bare metal. Continueing the fabrication/metal work.

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[Mscdman]

PS - Here is an example of the "quality" work La Bouf Fabriaction and Maddy does. Notice that the rear tail light replacement panel was put on completely wrong and doesn't follow the contour of the fender as it should. This guy should be shut down - seriously

[c21darrel]

Welcome to the wonderful world of ghias, restos, bodyshops and B.S.
The shops make their money on insurance work and quick turn arounds on daily drivers. Your experience of other cars getting ahead of yours is not only common, its the rule. On a good day they may work on yours if nothing else is in the shop. Tough lesson to learn
I think this is one reason so many learn to do the work on their own. We end up owning welders, spray guns, and sanding boards. I know thats why I picked up a few tools and skills during my last build. Its all a learning process and looks like you are learning as we all did, through experience. Start a new thread on those that dropped their car off at a shop then picked it up at the original deadline and it was done exactly as they expected. It'll be a short thread.
Did you say Maaco?
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GhiaBuild
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=481184
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