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I posted a few pics of my new 412 engine...
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kirk knighton
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:42 pm    Post subject: I posted a few pics of my new 412 engine... Reply with quote

but they're in the Gallery under 411/412s

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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very nice! Its a virtual twin of mine...2 door...4 speed....L96M Marathon blue......but yours is u4 right? Very cool! Mine will look that good in a year! Ray
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hulken
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice looking car, custom made air filter housings I assume.

Are you runnig without the original air cooling intake?
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kirk knighton
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Custom-made air housings indeed. The shop that built the engine changed the carbs from 34IDF Webers to 40IDFs, and the manifolds made the whole thing too tall to fit in the engine compartment. So the guy actually got some metal and cut, welded, sanded, polished and painted these things to fit. Took him two whole days, no extra charge. I added the filters from KNN.

The engine is bored-out to 2.1 liters with hydraulic lifters, 4-speed transmission. It pulls like a train!

Yes, the original air intake setup for cooling went out with the fuel injection, before I got the car in 2002.
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kirk knighton wrote:
Custom-made air housings indeed. The shop that built the engine changed the carbs from 34IDF Webers to 40IDFs, and the manifolds made the whole thing too tall to fit in the engine compartment. So the guy actually got some metal and cut, welded, sanded, polished and painted these things to fit. Took him two whole days, no extra charge. I added the filters from KNN.

The engine is bored-out to 2.1 liters with hydraulic lifters, 4-speed transmission. It pulls like a train!

Yes, the original air intake setup for cooling went out with the fuel injection, before I got the car in 2002.



Interesting.....so...basically you are using the original tin in place....to keep the engine compartment sealed and just feeding from the open hole/louvers in the hatch right?

I mean ...hey.....if the engine compartment is sealed...cooling should be just as good right? the only drawback I can see...is that you get a lot of road dust and grime inside of the engine compartment instead of just in the cooling system...which is only an aesthetic drawback...not a functional one.

And i see what looks like a bus leaf screen....over the fan right?

leet us know how the temps run please. Nice decisions.


Oh...and the cooling boots main function from what I have read is to keep water off of the engine. Please let us know if you stay dry enough in the rain. May be worth using a bit more baffle or a downward snorkel pulling the air down to "around" the fan...and letting the intakes pull it upward. That way rain would at worst get the rear sheet metal and fan wet but nothing else topside. Just some thoughts. Ray
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hulken
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I could need some more space in my engine compartment, when my new engine is going in. I'm aiming for a turbo and need room for the intercooler and all plumbing.

I'm planning to adapt the side air intakes from a stationwagon on my 2-door coupe, so I would guess there will be more cool air entering the engine compartment compared to buses?
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kirk knighton
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I've had the car like this for 12 years, never noticed any kind of rain issue back there. Or even when I wash the car!
As for cooling, even without the shroud and duct stuff the fan draws plenty of good, cool air into the engine tin. I remember when I first bought the car back east, having won it on an ebay bid. We took the train from Seattle to a town near Pittsburgh PA, where the seller met us. We drove it all the way home across some pretty hot stretches in Iowa and South Dakota. I remember pulling up the heater lever just to see how hot the heater was in that climate. I put my hand up to the little round outlet on the dash by the window - almost burned the skin off my fingers! Yet we made it home in seven days, and ever since the car has had that nice, cool Pacific Northwest air flowing past the cooling fins surrounding each cylinder.
I have four air-cooled vehicles: three Type-4s and a motorcycle. It's a good climate for air-cooled beings.
Yes, I put that bus leaf screen on it. Originally it was just wide open there, and that didn't seem right.
The car was a Pennsylvania original, yet had/has no rust. Interestingly, PA law does not require a front license plate, and so my 412 didn't even have a front plate bracket when I got it. Back home in WA I had to find one ( right here on The Samba, in fact!). Too bad; I like the way the front looked without a plate.
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the feedback. I dont know if you have ever seen the original boot set up on the sedans. The leaf screen for that is way up in the top of the "funnel".

What you are saying makes totap sense now that I think about how its laid out. On the original set up....the cooling air enters through the louvers on the endine compartment lid....but it makes nearly a 180° turn I beleive ....around a baffle. That baffle strips a lot of the water out of rain. This is why there are drains in the corners of the engine hatch. The fact that those drains clog is why the hatches rust out.....that and the foam filling.

The air goes through the leaf screen into the funnel and into the fan.

On yours...you dumped the funnel and boot.....and as long as most of the water still gets separated by the engine hatch baffel....it should be no big deal.

On the stock set up....because the engine compartment is sealed off from the intake air by the funnel....the throttle body has a snorkel to allow it to get its air from the funnel.

The only real benefit I can think of that the funnel gives...is that on the 411/412 sedans....if your engkne compartment seal iw missing or damaged. ..it makes little difference on the temperature of cooling or engine intake air because they pull their air from the cooling funnel. As long as your seal and tins are in place yours should work just as well. Ray
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kirk knighton
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We used to have a bus - a 1976, the same color as that one in the movie Little Miss Sunshine - and as I recall the cooling air just flowed into those two big scoops on either side and into the engine compartment, sucked into the cooling tin by the fan. Pretty much same setup as my 412. It seemed to work okay - although the engine did finally blow up one fine sunny (though not hot) day. And can you guess which cylinder sucked in its exhaust valve?

The shop where the built my engine did a lot of work on Vanagons. Even though everybody there had a special place in their hearts for any and all air-cooled VWs, they had to admit that the air-cooled Vanagons were ill-fated: the vans were just too big and heavy to be pushed by that motor, and they ran hot. Even with the best of maintenance, they said, you'd be lucky to get 50,000 miles out of those engines.

One of the things they did there was to address the cooling system issues of the water-cooled ones. Apparently they came from the factory with all these cheap plastic fittings for the pipes and water hoses. They had a kit where they'd replace everything with vastly-upgraded stainless steel fittings.

Sadly the shop just closed; I was their last rebuild. One of the mechanics - in fact the one who did my engine - got a new job right away at another shop in Seattle, a place called Peace Vans, where they work exclusively on Vanagons. And the occasional air-cooled Bus if one ever came around.

Interestingly at the old shop they wouldn't work on any Vanagon that had the Subaru engine conversion. They considered such vehicles no longer VWs. Besides they had enough work to last almost forever. I had to wait months for my opening to get my rebuild. Same for my other Type-4s when I had them in for various ailments. They did damn-good work, charged fair prices. Damn shame the owner's wife got transferred out of state and he pretty much had no choice about selling the building and closing the business.

One of the other mechanics there was offered a job right away at the nearby VW dealership. They even offered to send him off for a month's training so he could work on 21st century VWs - you know, the kind that bear ZERO resemblance to the ones we drive? But he thought about for a few days before turning them down. Just didn't want to get sucked into that whole scene. He'll have plenty of freelance work in the area, he's that good.
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