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Ok, this camber adjustment has now annoyed me....
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Jerry39218
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EVfun wrote:
Jerry39218 wrote:
EVfun wrote:
No, in the beam the trailing arms are supported by an inner bushing and an outer bearing (or bushing on old cars.) What happens to alignment if the lower tube outboard bearing starts to get loose? I notice that VW chose to enlarge that for the ball joint cars.



gotcha, but if that's loose, I can't move it.. it seems quite tight.


Well, it was worth a check because somebody welded supports to the lower tubes. The only way to do that right would involve pulling at least the outer bearing before welding, then reinstalling it.


yeah, was wondering about that process...however I have no way of knowing if it was done correctly... I suppose I could remove the arms and see what's there?
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Jerry39218
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BL3Manx wrote:
Jerry39218 wrote:

gotcha, but if that's loose, I can't move it.. it seems quite tight.


Are you saying the needle roller bearings are seized in the end of the beam or are you saying the bearing doesn't rattle around loosely in the beam when the trailing arm is removed or are you saying the trailing arm doesn't rattle around loosely when its in the bearing in the end of the beam?

Jerry39218 wrote:

Just looked at another similar buggy and after looking at that, I'm leaning heavily on bent spindles...


Bent downwards?



yes, that's what it appears like, however what gets me is both sides? And the wheels roll fine, both sides, doesn't bind or anything.
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Jerry39218
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

VOLKSWAGNUT wrote:
Jerry39218 wrote:
VOLKSWAGNUT wrote:
Hmmmm.
Be sure the deepest cast ledge of the link pin carrier is on the inside and bottom..

check the pics


I did.. but Im not standing there in person.

It "looks" like the carriers are on correctly....

First get an actual wheel degree measurement.. (best on level surface)
Straight edge across the wheel surface vertically. Take an angle reading and deduct that from the ground horizontal surface near that wheel.
If its 0 - 1.0 positive degrees.. its 100% Its normal..

If you are suspecting a bent spindle... IMO.. it would have been bent like that on purpose... as ... typically a bent spindle.. creates negative camber.
..
It can usually be spotted when comparing backing to drum... It seems like your backing plate is closer at the bottom rather than the top...
That would indicate a bent spindle..
Plus you have issues on both sides... which means.. its like that because its either normal..... or altered on purpose..


Before you bight the bullet on any parts...
Use an angle gauge and measure as DaleM suggested.
Compare backing plate mount surface (plate off) and drum wheel mount surface (or drum edge).. Those angles should be the same.

If they are the same.... the spindle isnt bent..... but the king pin angle through the spindle could be altered.
Could be a case of shit for parts that was installed.

The next thing to do is start comparing known good parts.
That means you will have to have at least a good vice..

If you dont want to fool with tools...and time.. start playing parts darts....

For me.. Id want some good hard numbers before I wasted time and money.
.



totally agree... and I've been at this particular point for a bit now.

glad that you caught it too.

Hereiin lies a problem with how to do this--you guys make it sound easy, but angles and measurements I'm not good with, at all.
I have a bubble level, but I'm thinking it won't be much help as it's not delicate enough but I can try--think I can handle the backing plate check, have a couple ideas on that one.
Thought about using some kind of string measurement on the spindle--the garage floor seems level enough, but the house has had foundation repair in the past, and it doesn't appear to have reached the garage, so I'm not sure about the "baseline" on this one using a bubble.

I'm curious about the beam bearings/bushings also.

There is a guy on ebay that sells rebuilt kingpin setups from spindle to beam, thinking of going that route on one side and see if it makes a difference
I may have some info on a local guy who can rebuild kingpins, but haven't talked with him yet.

Who knows, it may still be an arm bent, but there again..both sides?
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Jerry39218
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wait a minute...

Just had a new theory come to mind..

will post a pic in a few to illustrate my point.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Notice anything unusual?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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Jerry39218
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not that OCD, but it's enough to where this has been bothering me since I bought this thing.

I just took some measurements comparing one side to the other.

Now, pay no attention to the windshield, as one side is higher than the other--the drivers side--just haven't adjusted it yet.

the fiberglass body is kinked down slighly on the drivers side, just on the rear. thought maybe it had sat out in the sun for years or something..who knows.

But according to the measurements I just took, the passenger side rear is 1mm higher than the drivers side--measured at the rear torsion bars.

Here is another theory.

My roommate pointed out it could have been put on a frame straightener of some kind and the front was tied down. With tension applied it could have bent the kingpins and or spindles down.

It does seem the frame is slightly off.

I'm thinking a body shop might could tell me something more specific on this.
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Jerry39218
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, and the roll bar is just every so slightly NOT level, although I can't be sure that the floor doesn't have something to do with that--just another observation.
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EVfun
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't think anything about a 1mm difference at a corner. Slight difference in the weight from side to side, perhaps by the battery, can cause more difference than that. Plus, normal aging of the torsion bars could produce at least that much error after 50 years. If you can get a lot of light under the car you might look it over the frame for evidence of straitening or cracking.
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Jerry39218
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I've been doing that every time I jack it, but other than the weld from the main cut, I'm not noticing anything out of the ordinary, but then again I'm not sure what to look for precisely.

it's coated in some kind of finish, and that stuff might be covering something up. Where the VIN is supposed to be, someone destroyed the numbers with a mig welder, it looks like.

the frame does appear to be straight, it's the rear body that's droopy on one side lol.
Wish I knew how to fix that particular issue. [/b]
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Dale M.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Pretty typical of any build.... Many bodies are not symmetrical, and most have taken on a warp after 40 years of abuse or setup on bent chassis or left out in weather....

Typically at some point during build chassis needs to be leveled in both planes (front to back and side to side) and checked there is no twist build into chassis during shortening process (probably done on garage floor and not chassis jig), then body set in place, if body does not set level after set on chassis one need to shim between pan and body mount lip to get body level to chassis.... IF this step is overlooked, nothing will ever be in line.... Have had to do this process on every build I have done..... Usually have to use something like hard wood tapered shims to force body back to level.....

Unfortunately this step was over looked during the build....

Dale
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VOLKSWAGNUT
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just as Dale posted... just because the body is jacked up... doesnt mean the chassis is..
Getting the body more level is easy..

An angle reading on a moderately level ground from the wheels can help get a base idea..

A simple angle finder.. or a smart phone app will do the trick with a straight edge across the wheel lip.

Its not uncommon for a maladjusted rear torsion bar to effect its opposite front corner.

Even IF it had that..(rear issue) it generally effects one side vs the other.. with your current issue.. focus on it first...

.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed on both replies.

Back to the positive camber issue....

Will see if I can't come up with some measurements on the spindles, or at least one.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jerry39218 wrote:
it's coated in some kind of finish, and that stuff might be covering something up. Where the VIN is supposed to be, someone destroyed the numbers with a mig welder, it looks like.


That would be a full stop for me! First you should establish ownership, if not with the VW VIN then perhaps the state has attached a VIN tag to the body or chassis. Defaced VIN numbers can bring up future licensing and ownership nightmares. Some states don't use the original VIN for kit cars, so it may be no big deal, but it is important that the title and the vehicle VIN numbers match and the matching numbers are readable and not altered or defaced.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EVfun wrote:
Jerry39218 wrote:
it's coated in some kind of finish, and that stuff might be covering something up. Where the VIN is supposed to be, someone destroyed the numbers with a mig welder, it looks like.


That would be a full stop for me! First you should establish ownership, if not with the VW VIN then perhaps the state has attached a VIN tag to the body or chassis. Defaced VIN numbers can bring up future licensing and ownership nightmares. Some states don't use the original VIN for kit cars, so it may be no big deal, but it is important that the title and the vehicle VIN numbers match and the matching numbers are readable and not altered or defaced.


didn't know until a couple weeks ago... it may just be that the coating has covered it up, but it appears like a mig scratch under the coating... eventually I will try to get the coating off for a better look.

it's registered under a 72 VIN... engine code is an H.. the rest appears to be pre 64.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hopefully its already in your name...
and hopefully those 72 numbers are at least on it ...... somewhere.... strictly for legal and insurance purposes...

.
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Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
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Jerry39218
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's in my name yes.
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 9:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Ok, this camber adjustment has now annoyed me.... Reply with quote

So we get all the way thru this camber saga, I spent an hour reading thru all the arguments and such...and we end up talking about VIN!!!! Evil or Very Mad Shocked Rolling Eyes

What was the final resolution to the camber issue? I have the same problem but only on one side....
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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 7:39 am    Post subject: Re: Ok, this camber adjustment has now annoyed me.... Reply with quote

I like the part where Jerry bitches everybody out and invites them to walk a mile in his shoes LOL !!!!!!!!!! to funny !!!!
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