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MsTaboo
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

slcpasta wrote:
What's with all the hate, guys? I get that this is a different decision than most people would make, but then again, isn't buying a Vanagon in the first place kind of an odd decision? I've got something very specific in mind as an end product, and to get there I need to get rid of the a/c. Can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs, and all.

Anyway, I appreciate the advice, and I'll continue to torment you with updates on the tearing asunder of this innocent van. Twisted Evil


Why not just get a Baywindow? Then you can have the benefit of no A/C and no heat. Leave the nice Carat alone!
We see these kinds of hacks all the time where someone gets an idea that they know better and start tearing into their rig and make a mess. It then gets sold and the next owner is left trying to put it back right.
Maybe you'll wow us all with your mad fabricating skills and come up with some wonderful mod.

Edit: I shouldn't post when I'm in a bad mood. There are just so few unmolested rigs left that it hurts to see another get hacked. Of course the van is his to do with as he pleases, he paid the price of admission and can do whatever he wants with his car. Hope it comes out well.
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syncroluvr
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I took the rear A/C out of my Syncro Westy a few years ago but I did keep all the parts 'cause I'm a pack rat. Do what you want to do but be aware that everyone will give you their opinion of why you shouldn't do something or say something silly, like go buy a Bay! This Forum has a wealth of info. Start with your Bentley then do a good search and then ask for help. When I took mine out, I took pictures and labeled everything, it all came apart easily. Cheers Very Happy
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He's not asking for any help.
As you can see ( if you have started from the top of this thread) the lad is already made his mind up & into the excavation process.

What been happening from that point on folks have been trying to put the hooks on his hole digging process.

But--- if he is into the caveman style / no frills manner of motoring about, perhaps a Bay window no ammenities type ride would be more appealing to him.
A pre stripped out Bay might be the answer.

No point in tearing up a basically nice van.
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Truth be told, he paid for the Van and can do as he pleases with it.

But I guess all of us old farts have just seen way too many jobs begun and few finished.
There are precious few home made camper conversions that LOOK nice, sure many function well and many are also well designed but they most often lack any visual appeal unless you are into Fir Plywood grain being "pretty"!

One of the few good looking ones would be Go Nacho Go along with precious few others.
http://www.drivenachodrive.com/about-nacho/installing-custom-cabinets-in-nacho-vanagon/

It's just hard to stand by and helplessly watch a train wreck.

My guess is that he's young and we should not go confusing him with facts and solid advice.

Dave
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slcpasta
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look, you guys clearly think I'm making a mistake taking this stuff out, and that's fine; I get where you're coming from.

However, if anybody has any actual advice (beyond "look in Bentley") about how to remove the hoses and wiring, I'd appreciate that even more.
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

slcpasta wrote:
Look, you guys clearly think I'm making a mistake taking this stuff out, and that's fine; I get where you're coming from.

However, if anybody has any actual advice (beyond "look in Bentley") about how to remove the hoses and wiring, I'd appreciate that even more.


I think that already been covered.
If the unit is still charged, have the gas removed, most likely R12, you can crack loose a fitting and let it slowly ooze out...... but that's just irresponsible to our ozone layer.

Once empty, loosen the fittings, disconnect wires and remove.

You will have holes through the metal floor to fill and some extra wires but having power wires in the rear is a good thing for future 12v needs.

Dave

Whether you save it or trash it...... It's up to you. If you want it gone, just place a classified ad on here for little if any money, let someone who is trying to piece back a previously modified Van have the components,
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IdahoDoug
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SLC,

Took mine out as well. I wanted to carefully take it out but after looking at it and seeing the time I was wasting, I grabbed my side cutters and in about 15 minutes it was all laying on the garage floor. Some oil will leak out of a couple of the hoses after you ruthlessly cut them.

DougM (with a cavernous tintop interior now that the center tube and rear unit are gone...)

PM me and I'll share some cool ideas what to do with the unfinished Rear pillars and headliner. Piece of cake.
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1vw4x4
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I own and have restored many old cars that never had AC. I've also
worked with a guy who has had similar cars. We drove them,,, a lot.
WE were very smart about where and when to drive to beat the heat.

Now when it comes to the vanagon, the AC is an expensive feature to
keep operating. Even on its best day, the front heater vents have to
be properly maintained otherwise the AC is lost to the outside air
leaking in. This is usually the biggest reason people complain about it
not worked very well, being mounted in the rear. This being said AC
in the vanagon is a very rich option that few people actually get to enjoy.

Take it out.... you'll save the earth some fuel.
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1vw4x4
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doug,
Why not share then here?


IdahoDoug wrote:
SLC,

Took mine out as well. I wanted to carefully take it out but after looking at it and seeing the time I was wasting, I grabbed my side cutters and in about 15 minutes it was all laying on the garage floor. Some oil will leak out of a couple of the hoses after you ruthlessly cut them.

DougM (with a cavernous tintop interior now that the center tube and rear unit are gone...)

PM me and I'll share some cool ideas what to do with the unfinished Rear pillars and headliner. Piece of cake.
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slcpasta
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doug, I'd love to see your ideas/pictures. Feel free to PM them to me, or post them up here for posterity.
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IdahoDoug
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SLC,

This part of the van is cosmetically the only part I have not finished. Here's what I'm going to do.

When you are finished removing the rear A/C you will be faced with unfinished D pillars on the inside. Mine's a Weekender so it has hard plastic interior wall panels that make this a little bit more difficult on mine to mate the trim up. Home Depot sells a pasteboard like product that is the same thickness as the trim on your rear hatch. Perfect so there will be some continuity in the trim. I will find the product code or something so you can find it. It comes in 8 foot by 4 foot sheets like plywood and I am also redoing my rear hatch panel with it simply by tracing around the old hatch panel. The entire sheet was $9. Mine's been sitting in the garage since July waiting for time. It accepts paint and I'm going to paint mine the same grey as the wallboards, though VW usually paints the D pillar trim black for some reason (depressing to me).

We are an active family, so I'm using the paste board (be sure you get the outdoor grade, btw) to mount bungee netting, some sturdy hook/anchor points, and some power outlets. So when returning to the van from a bike ride, we can stuff helmets, grundgy shoes and the like into the bungee netting. We can hang CamelBak water bags from the hooks, and the like. When sleeping in it, the power supply outlets (USB, 120v AC, etc) can charge lights, phones and cameras which themselves can sit in the bungee netting. A couple swiveling lights will be great for reading at night, illuminating the engine bay for roadside emergencies, or lighting the hatch area while loading in the dark.

So in essence, we are taking that space and making it into a utilitarian and useful space for the stuff we do. The strong sheetmetal behind the pasteboard trim makes for a strong anchor for the fittings and the trim itself is an easy way to make these places look finished. You may have other sports or activities you can tailor what you install there with.

For the headliner, I pulled the hatch rubber trim, then reinstalled it so that it trapped the excess headliner material temporarily. Then I trimmed off the excess hanging over. I will use an automotive grade adhesive to attach the headliner along the top of the hatch opening and plan to mount a couple hooks or anchor points up there as well. I am also adding a 3rd stop light up on the roof, so I need access to this area to wire it before glueing it in place. I have the 3rd stop light in the garage. Its an LED one from any GM mid size van, or the S Blazer and some Suburbans as well. I paid $3 at a pick n pull.

The hatch trim will also have a few little storage/anchor point type features and possibly a ventilation fan to pull air through the van when parked.

So there you have it. The space you'll be modifying is great for repurposing for a variety of things and you should feel free to do whatever you want and need to do. Easy peezy.....

DougM
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IdahoDoug
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, one more thing. Save the metal plates that held the center tube to the ceiling, and the screws. They make great spots to stick magnetic LED lights, and a sturdy place to attach other mounts like Go Pros to. Also, save those little L brackets at the top of the D pillars where the heavy A/C unit was attached at the roofline, and the bolts that fit the captured nuts. They also make a great hard point that is VERY sturdy to build perhaps a shelf up there, or a mount for an oscillating fan (bought mine at NAPA for $15), a bike fork mount, etc.
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funny, as a young kid, my wife and I used to say..... "Who needs Air Conditioning?" As we drove alone the Great Plains in the Summer shoving ice cubes into the dash vents! (Of course back then most cars did NOT have AC and it was a new and very expensive option)

Today we need AC for comfort, we aren't 19 any longer!

When I was looking for a Vanagon, having an AC system was an absolute must have and factored into what units we even gave a look at.
Does it work? I don't yet know but it will by the time this unit rolls! It is absolutely worth the expense to make it work living in the humid Northeast.

Good luck with your project, may it turn out not only beautiful but may it actually be finished as well.

Dave
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to side track, but I hope to install AC in my Weekender some day (front mounted only, not giving up the rear cabinet) as I see it as the #1 thing to do to quiet the van.

My AC has been out of operation on my car for several years, with a back road commute and limited high temps, it's not a hardship. However, on a 4 1/2 hr drive last week - on a hot day and through Boston, and even into the mountains with the 70mph limit, the wind and/or traffic nose was a real drag, we could not even play the radio. I hit the trailhead feeling exhausted before the hiking trip!

It amazes me how smooth and quiet the Vanagon is up to 50mph, above that the wind noise, and perhaps road noise, is huge.

Having said that, it's your van do what you want to do. But what others said about resale value is correct (I'm finding my self agreeing with Terry K more often Confused Laughing )If I was choosing between a van with AC installed and working, even somewhat marginally and one w/o, I would pay $1,500 more for the one with AC. I know some of you live where play spots are only an hr or 2 away, but for many of us, 4 hours, often passing through hot urban areas required to get to our preferred play spots.
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IdahoDoug
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exactly - depends on where you live n play. Its low humidity here such that the weather reports say "76 degrees but feels like 72" here rather than what most feel. And I only drive my girl when I want to so i am fortunate in that regard. Id think differently living in most places. However, these things are caverns with nothing but headliner above and the full hatch opening clear...
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vanagonjr wrote:
the wind and/or traffic nose was a real drag, we could not even play the radio. I hit the trailhead feeling exhausted before the hiking trip!

It amazes me how smooth and quiet the Vanagon is up to 50mph, above that the wind noise, and perhaps road noise, is huge.


This was the exact same observation that led me to get the AC fixed in my Westy after 4 years of ownership. The PO said "living in Montana, AC isn't needed". What a load of crap.

I need to have some sort of breeze blowing in my face when I'm in a vehicle even if it's just moderately warm inside. Unfortunately, the position of the Westy's vent (behind the steering wheel) prevents me from ever feeling a breeze without opening the window. At 65+ mph all of that white noise puts me to sleep. With the window closed and no AC the roasting temps inside a maroon van did the same.

After far too many times driving home after a weekend of camping, mtn biking, staying up late, etc., fighting to keep awake on the highway, not having AC finally became a bonafide safety issue.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terry Kay wrote:
<< even the harsh ones from the socially inept>>

Nope--
Politically incorrect would be a lot closer.
No Mamby Pamby info from me.
And proud of it.


I've seen this happen with a few contributors on a few different posts. To clarify, it has nothing to do with being politically correct. When someone asks for specific help and then they get bombarded with advice that doesn't answer their question or even acknowledge it, that's a frustrating experience.

"Socially inept" is probably too harsh a way to phrase this behavior. I'm an optimist so I'll make the assumption that people providing this non-responsive advice are actually trying to be helpful. For the advice to have any value, though, there has to be a good chance that the original poster will follow it.

You don't need to be politically correct to deliver advice in a way that's convincing to the person you're trying to help. You do need to show a little bit of empathy and a willingness to understand their motivations and goals.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

slobrewer wrote:
Terry Kay wrote:
<< even the harsh ones from the socially inept>>

Nope--
Politically incorrect would be a lot closer.
No Mamby Pamby info from me.
And proud of it.


I've seen this happen with a few contributors on a few different posts. To clarify, it has nothing to do with being politically correct. When someone asks for specific help and then they get bombarded with advice that doesn't answer their question or even acknowledge it, that's a frustrating experience.

"Socially inept" is probably too harsh a way to phrase this behavior. I'm an optimist so I'll make the assumption that people providing this non-responsive advice are actually trying to be helpful. For the advice to have any value, though, there has to be a good chance that the original poster will follow it.

You don't need to be politically correct to deliver advice in a way that's convincing to the person you're trying to help. You do need to show a little bit of empathy and a willingness to understand their motivations and goals.


Hmmmmmm......... I don't see any answered AC questions in the above quote............ Think
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not having A/C isn't that big of a deal here. Like others said, it's knowing where to go at what time. It is the 100 degree days that get you and I've had a few driving in my van. The passengers suffer the most, especially if she is already hungry and tired. So it's personality based too. I can deal with the heat, but those 5 times a year A/C would be nice.

As far as exploding, just touch the valve with something to see if it's full. If nothing comes out, try the other one. If still nothing, you are good to disconnect the hoses. If it's full, call an A/C specific shop for an evacuation. Since it's likely R-12, they might want it. If it has adapters and is R-134A, I can do it at work for free.

Don't listen to the naysayers about the Carat interior, it will fit great in my 2wd sunroof Very Happy I'm busy tonight but the rest of the week looks good by the way! I can help with pointing out some of the electrical stuff too and I do actually have some ideas for saving A/C but routing the hoses up front where they are useful. Also, let me know if there are any specific tools I can bring that you need for disassemble.
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