Author |
Message |
supersuk Samba Member
Joined: December 20, 2010 Posts: 958 Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
|
Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 1:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
You should try lay down a nice thick coat of hi-build before you leave. The epoxy isn't very fun to sand.
I wish I could've primed my car all at one time like yours, but the humidity here prevents that. I had to do sections at a time like Bob does. Makes it so much easier and you waste a lot less paint!
Looking good and moving fast! _________________ 68 Fastback Build: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5396323#5396323 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7544 Location: Santa Cruz
|
Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I was going to try and angle for some high-build...
But,
Most of that stuff goes on places that are pretty flat, and would be easy to sand.
I would love to have some down, though, and save some scuffing the primer...
But,
Alas,
It's time for some family attention now. _________________ Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
suruba Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2012 Posts: 132 Location: Seaside, CA
|
Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
supersuk wrote: |
You should try lay down a nice thick coat of hi-build before you leave. The epoxy isn't very fun to sand.
I wish I could've primed my car all at one time like yours, but the humidity here prevents that. I had to do sections at a time like Bob does. Makes it so much easier and you waste a lot less paint!
Looking good and moving fast! |
I wanted to get it down too, but I started school today and I'm actually in class as we speak. we had to hustle to get done what we did, it's been a hell of a thrash.
Dave |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7544 Location: Santa Cruz
|
Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I picked up some more activator for that epoxy and the seam-seal gun, too...
_________________ Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22425 Location: Kimball, Mi
|
Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 6:00 pm Post subject: Re: Last Stand Against the Sand |
|
|
Clatter wrote: |
First, the thin spots in the epoxy were dispatched with,
Then about an hour and a half later... Paint!
We got all of the areas that can't really be reached with the car rightside-up.
All those nooks and crannies got topcoated. |
If you look at this pic, you'll see that they primed AND painted the bottom, along with most of the hard to reach areas. I think Steve will be fine, but he'll get tired scuffing up all that epoxy primer, so it can get another coat of it, along with some high build primer. Remember, the outside work (that shows) will take longer to do anyway. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7544 Location: Santa Cruz
|
Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 9:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
It's my understanding that epoxy or paint just need scuffed with some 320 or 400 to give some tooth, right?
It doesn't need sanded down, or smooth or anything, right?
Just a quick once-over...
Primer filler, a.k.a "High Build" gets sanded down a lot... _________________ Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
MonT3 Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012 Posts: 1988 Location: South Dakota
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Brent Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2010 Posts: 1614 Location: San Tan Valley, AZ
|
Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 5:53 am Post subject: Re: Last Stand Against the Sand |
|
|
Bobnotch wrote: |
Clatter wrote: |
First, the thin spots in the epoxy were dispatched with,
Then about an hour and a half later... Paint!
We got all of the areas that can't really be reached with the car rightside-up.
All those nooks and crannies got topcoated. |
If you look at this pic, you'll see that they primed AND painted the bottom, along with most of the hard to reach areas. I think Steve will be fine, but he'll get tired scuffing up all that epoxy primer, so it can get another coat of it, along with some high build primer. Remember, the outside work (that shows) will take longer to do anyway. |
Note to self: build a rotisserie
Looks good, glad to see some paint. _________________ 69 Fastback Build
Berg5 Build |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22425 Location: Kimball, Mi
|
Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 6:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
Clatter wrote: |
It's my understanding that epoxy or paint just need scuffed with some 320 or 400 to give some tooth, right?
It doesn't need sanded down, or smooth or anything, right?
Just a quick once-over...
Primer filler, a.k.a "High Build" gets sanded down a lot... |
Yeah, you can use 320 or 400, but IF you're going to re-apply epoxy and then add high build over it, or you can go a little coarser on the sand paper (like 180 or 220 grit). You don't want the surface "too smooth", as then it won't have anything to bite into (no tooth). That's why epoxy works so well over sandblasted steel, it has the "tooth" needed to bite in.
Yes, the high build WILL see a lot of sanding, as that's the layer you want pretty damn smooth and straight. I'd use 320 on it (you can start with 180 or 220, then sand again and again with finer grits as needed to remove the sand scratches), then put a coat of reduced epoxy on it, wait a day, and wet sand that with either 400, or 600, then paint it. Don't go any smoother than the 600, as it'll cause adhesion problems.
This (above) is why bodywork costs so much, and takes so much time. You've got chemicals that need to do their thing (time wise), along with ALL of the sanding needed to finese the body shapes you have (again more time, aka labor).
I hope this helps. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
eyetzr Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2013 Posts: 1425 Location: Toronto, Ontario. Canada
|
Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
X2 what bobnotch says. I would add a guide coat of black paint to aid in the sanding process. Looks great, I can really appreciate the work you & your crew have invested, I have been there & done that before. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
supersuk Samba Member
Joined: December 20, 2010 Posts: 958 Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
|
Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 5:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I basically do exactly what Bob does since we both use PPG products. I'm not sure how different the DuPont stuff is, but the P-sheets should tell you exactly what you need to know. Epoxy is def not very fun to sand...I'd avoid sanding epoxy if you can.
Whenever I did have to sand epoxy, I used 180 grit and the hard to reach places, I used a red scuff pad. Then I recoated it with epoxy and layed down several coats of highbuild over that after about an hour which is what needs to be done for PPG products. All of my panels except for the passenger door is ready to be blocked.
Epoxy coatings generally do a mechanical bond to the lower substrate and a chemical bond to whatever is above it. Just remember that when laying down the next coat of paint when out of the tie period.
Have fun on your vacay!! If you're coming to Hawaii message me and lets meet up! _________________ 68 Fastback Build: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5396323#5396323 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22425 Location: Kimball, Mi
|
Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
supersuk wrote: |
I basically do exactly what Bob does since we both use PPG products. I'm not sure how different the DuPont stuff is, but the P-sheets should tell you exactly what you need to know. Epoxy is def not very fun to sand...I'd avoid sanding epoxy if you can.
Whenever I did have to sand epoxy, I used 180 grit and the hard to reach places, I used a red scuff pad. Then I recoated it with epoxy and layed down several coats of highbuild over that after about an hour which is what needs to be done for PPG products. All of my panels except for the passenger door is ready to be blocked.
Epoxy coatings generally do a mechanical bond to the lower substrate and a chemical bond to whatever is above it. Just remember that when laying down the next coat of paint when out of the tie period.
Have fun on your vacay!! If you're coming to Hawaii message me and lets meet up! |
I tried several times to tell Steve to go with the PPG epoxy, but he decided to go with Dupont. I have absolutely no experience with it, and I'd have to go off the P-sheets too. When talking to my local Dupont dealer, he told me there was a 1 hr induction time before I could spray it. That's too long for me to wait. It might be dark, and the bugs coming out by then.
With the PPG stuff, you just add some 402, mix it up real good, and load up the gun and go. Simple. If you want to turn it into a sealer, add some DT 870 to it (up to 10%) and shoot it. If you want to wait, use the 401, and you've got a built in 1/2 hr of screw off time (induction time). You want to throw some high build on it, wait 30 minutes (using 402) or 1 hr (using 401), and shoot it. It's really so simple, which is why I like using. Add in that it really works. I've been using it before they took the lead out, and I've been using for the last 16 years since. It works. But, what I really like about it, is that I can use it on fiberglass, aluminum, painted steel, bare steel, and even sanded to bare painted steel. It's just so versatial. It goes over many fillers too (yes Tram even no-lead lead).
But Steve, go and enjoy yourself, have fun, enjoy the family, grow a beard, grow flies. Just have fun. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
eyetzr Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2013 Posts: 1425 Location: Toronto, Ontario. Canada
|
Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 6:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
I think that Clatter has learned a bunch from this & continues to learn as he goes. Yes sanding epoxy sucks large, sand exposed areas & recoat & then high build. In the past I have sprayed epoxy & top coated with paint (usually left overs) It is easier to sand. Then go over the whole job to see if it is flat & you did not miss any spots, sand & top coat with high build. This works well in jobs like the turtle pose the fasty is in now. Keep up the great work & have a nice vacay. Cheers |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7544 Location: Santa Cruz
|
Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 5:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
After spending the last few days in the car,
And of course thinking about this stuff constantly...
Bob had me scared that I might have gone down the wrong path or something.
So I loaded up the TDS and read it again for the umpteenth time.
This is not the water-based enviro stuff they sell inland.
For some reason, closer to the ocean has cleaner air, so it's OK to pollute it with nasty chemicals!
This stuff is both for use as an 'etch prime' on bare metal,
but also as a sealer over high-build.
It doesn't need an induction time.
Under fillers, over fillers, under/over primers...
There are a couple of the best shops here in town that swear by the DuPont products,
And I believe them when they say the stuff is good.
Plus, the guys who sell it are right down the street, super helpful, willing to answer all of my questions, and cut me a deal.
And, really, far as I can tell, this stuff is bad ass...
If we can get good results with it, anyone can.
Check it out:
http://www.axaltacs.com/content/dam/NA/HQ/Public/Cromax/Documents/TDS/CX-TDS-V-29X0S-Eng.pdf _________________ Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22425 Location: Kimball, Mi
|
Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
So it doesn't come in black. Well that's shame. I only say that, as I have a customer who insists that I use "black death" (PPG DP 90), as he feels that stuff kills rust in it's tracks. He even picks it up for me to use.
Let us know how works out for you. I know I'll be watching. I really do hope it works out ok for you.
I know what the PPG can do over the long run (16+ years), whether the Dupont (excuse me Axalta) can survive in Michigan winters that long will have to be tested. And at this time, I'm not ready to switch to an unknown. I like being able to use white (great for seal coating before shooting VW colors), dark gray, light gray, and black primers, as they work better under most of the common top coat colors I work with (for that factory color match). I've even used gray green under a green car before, as the guy was a little short on cash when it came to buying paint (we stretched what he had bought). I've even mixed the primer colors before to get the shade I'm working with right. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7544 Location: Santa Cruz
|
Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
Ya, was a bit miffed that it only came in dark gray...
You can see in the pics that it isn't black,
I'll try to figure out a way to pick up the pieces of my life and carry on!
The primer/filler only comes in grey, but it'll get sealed with the epoxy, so I should be able to live a reasonably normal life.
Here's that stuff, FWIW.
http://www.axaltacs.com/content/dam/NA/HQ/Public/Cromax/Documents/TDS/CX-TDS-LE340XS.pdf
Going on vacation has provided me a few opportunities to just sit and study the sheets, watch a few how-to painting videos, gun set-up, etc.
Actually a good thing, because it was starting to get really rushed there for a bit!
FWIW, here's the paint sheet, if anyone cares.
Notice they still call the stuff DuPont.
http://pc.dupont.com/dpc/en/US/html/visitor/common...PremSS.pdf _________________ Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22425 Location: Kimball, Mi
|
Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Clatter wrote: |
Ya, was a bit miffed that it only came in dark gray...
You can see in the pics that it isn't black, |
I'll try to figure out a way to pick up the pieces of my life and carry on!
The primer/filler only comes in grey, but it'll get sealed with the epoxy, so I should be able to live a reasonably normal life.
Here's that stuff, FWIW.
http://www.axaltacs.com/content/dam/NA/HQ/Public/Cromax/Documents/TDS/CX-TDS-LE340XS.pdf
Going on vacation has provided me a few opportunities to just sit and study the sheets, watch a few how-to painting videos, gun set-up, etc.
Actually a good thing, because it was starting to get really rushed there for a bit!
FWIW, here's the paint sheet, if anyone cares.
Notice they still call the stuff DuPont.
http://pc.dupont.com/dpc/en/US/html/visitor/common...PremSS.pdf[/quot
I really hope the primer works for you. I've beeen chasing my tail for years. Depends on where you are. Some combos work great out of the box, and some don't.
PostPosted: Today 7:57 am Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ya, was a bit miffed that it only came in dark gray...
You can see in the pics that it isn't black,
I'll try to figure out a way to pick up the pieces of my life and carry on! Laughing
The primer/filler only comes in grey, but it'll get sealed with the epoxy, so I should be able to live a reasonably normal life.
Here's that stuff, FWIW.
http://www.axaltacs.com/content/dam/NA/HQ/Public/Cromax/Documents/TDS/CX-TDS-LE340XS.pdf _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Suesanctuary Samba Member
Joined: August 17, 2007 Posts: 842 Location: Wishing we were still chest deep in Vw Parts at the Wolfe Estate.
|
Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Wow! Amazing progress, I haven't been Samba "lurking" in quite some time and had eight pages of catch up to do! Great Job! Kudos to You and your Crew!
Remember to do some "vacationing" on your vacation. Rest, relaxation and Family time. The "project" will still be there when you get back! _________________ Sue
70 Fastback-AT w/ pop-outs
Did you know:
New York was the first state to require license plates, back in 1901. In those days, you had to make your own. Sears even sold Kits! Massachusetts was the first state to issue them in 1903.
Source: Automobile Magazine, Nov. 2006 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7544 Location: Santa Cruz
|
Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 11:28 am Post subject: Streeeetch... Scratch Scratch... |
|
|
Thanks for the kind words, Sue.
Now there are six people who have read this!
After getting back from a week out of town,
There's the whole 'back to work' thing,
Where all of the work you would have been doing when you were away is waiting for you in a big pile...
The car is safely tucked away from the weather in the garage.
Rain/Fog/Mist/Drizzle has arrived right on schedule, as the kids start school.
Even Dave is back in school now, and it's hard for me to get used to moving at like 1/8 the speed of before.
Downloading all of the pictures off of my phone for safekeeping, and looking at ALL of the work that took place, it really boggles my mind how lucky i have been.
To have Dave help me SO much has been really the only way this could have happened.
Would have had the car maybe 10% blasted, and in the middle of divorce proceedings without his help.
Dave, I really, really, really appreciate all of the work you put in.
I love you, man... *sniff*...
Look at this one right here; The fog of paint is coming out of the cooling air intake ductwork.
We got a TON of paint in there.
Can't only imagine what it looks like, but that does not matter.
There is paint in there to protect, and that's what counts!
So, to keep things moving, i took a bunch of small parts to Ian who blasted them in his cabinet.
These are all of the small misc. stuff that will allow me to get the front clip on...
And here is a pair of 72-74 bus top tins that Jim tanked for me.
They are going to get body-worked and the cracks welded and blasted and rattle-canned so as to be available for mocking up the engine tin, whenever that happens.
So that's a little progress, right?
With luck, I'l load up the gun with some epoxy and squirt the front clip, side panels, engine hatch and whatnot,
But only if the weather cooperates.
The clip is inside, but it's been pretty wet out for a few days now.
Since the whole blast booth is unlikely to get set back up anytine soon,
the plan is to scuff it with some 220,
maybe lay a wash of phosphoric over it all, followed by a water rinse, and get it epoxied.
Yeesh, the motivation is pretty sparse right now, but hopefully seeing something get done will help with that! _________________ Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
eyetzr Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2013 Posts: 1425 Location: Toronto, Ontario. Canada
|
Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 1:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Welcome back from vacation. Once you start plugging away again it will keep ya going. You have the torch to carry after all the assistance you had. Carry on we are cheering for you. _________________ I think he meant "rare", as in "not well-done" |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|