Sketchy ignition switch, push start potentially?

ayjay23

I have a 64 notchback with an ignition switch that works when it wants to. The car is still 6 volt with no plans in the near future of switching to 12v. The ingition registers the on position but when going 1 more to crank is where my issue is at. My question is if i were to switch to a push button setup is it just a simple solution to my problem? I was looking at the wiring diagram and it looks pretty simple. Not too excited about drilling into my dash to mount a switch so i might relocate it somewhere else. if anyone has any insight on this please let me know or possibly a walk thru so i make sure my understanding of this is correct. I would repair whats there if it were an option but from what ive read you need to replace the whole column. Thanks in advance.

old DKP driver · Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 8:19 pm Post subject: sketchy starting

Welcome

Even with a 6 volt system you can overcome the voltage drop that is
happening.

There are many posts here about this and the cures are sometimes time consuming but if you want to keep it original then start with all the connections and wiring for the starter circuit

Cleaning the connections at the fuse box and the starter for beginners
along with the ground straps at both the battery and the transmission
will help.

Upgrading the 6V Battery to a newer 8 Volt also will help if needed.
_________________
V.W.owner since 1967

flyinglow94 · Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 11:29 pm Post subject:

Typically it is the vary rare electrical portion located under the plastic button cover on the opposite side of the column of the key switch. It is more then likely coming loose internally. If you press in on it does it start? if so you might be able to tighten it up before it completely comes apart. I would not drill the dash I would look for a replacement and fix it properly.
_________________
"What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: 'tis dearness only that gives everything its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as FREEDOM should not be highly rated."
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy,its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.."

ayjay23 · Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:23 am Post subject:

I will check those couple fixes before I do anything else. I just recently replaced my battery with an optima gel cell. Was hoping to get a lil more mileage out of it. I just want it to work, can get frustrating at times.

DHanna · Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:33 am Post subject:

If it's the electrical end failing, do yourself a favour and buy a new one especially if you can do without the steering lock section.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/VW-TYPE-3-COMPLETE-IGNI...1c3d293030

EverettB · Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:09 am Post subject:

If for whatever reason you do not want to fix the ignition in the car, or replace it as someone mentioned above - do not drill the dash, just mount a button underneath the dash.

My old '63 Notchback had a starter button up under the dash on the left side so it was invisible and nothing was hacked.

You do not have to replace the entire column to replace a bad ignition, only the ignition switch. It is a pain if you have never done it before.
_________________
How to Post Photos
Everett Barnes - [email protected] | My wanted ads
"Water is the only drink for a wise man" | "Communication prevents complaints"
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

ataraxia · Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:34 am Post subject:

Does your ignition slide side to side when you insert the key/turn it?

Do you have a hard start relay?

Definitely check your transmission ground strap...it makes a difference.

ayjay23 · Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:35 pm Post subject:

There is a lil wiggle when I turn the key but nothing that I would call major. I don't think I have a hard start relay. If it wasn't installed from the factory I doubt I have it. Everything is pretty much original. Is that even something I can do for 6v? If so does that help with the voltage drop? I'm check the ground straps in a lil but then clean up the fuse box connections in the mean time.

flyinglow94 · Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:48 pm Post subject:

I don't know what ISP is using for the electrical but I have used and modified the ignition to use the 68-69 electrical portion and I can tell you first hand they are all Brazilian junk, you have to dig to find one good one. If you can find an NOS piece, Circle K and SWF are a little bit different so check and see which one you have. I also have a break down of the ignition on my facebook pics, you can click on my home page to go to it.
_________________
"What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: 'tis dearness only that gives everything its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as FREEDOM should not be highly rated."
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy,its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.."

HenrikL · Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 12:00 am Post subject:

If the ignition switch isn't completely burnt out a hard start relay may fix the problem.

ayjay23 · Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 8:36 am Post subject:

I haven't had a chance to check on the car yet, it's been too damn hot. But I'm pretty sure I do not have a hard start relay. Got the car from original owner and it's really untouched. After a lil reading I noticed people using a 6v ghia horn relay for 6v setups for their starter relay. Is that gonna work the same as a hard start relay? All the other relay stuff I saw was for 12v. Just wanna make sure I'm reading the right stuff. I'm really hoping the ground straps or another connection just might need some cleaning up though.

EverettB · Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 9:24 am Post subject:

Yes on the hard start relay being a Ghia horn relay.

Is the starter clicking but not turning over when you turn the ignition to the "Start" position? If you just get a click, this could be dirty ground wires or a bad starter bushing.

If the car is new to you I would clean the transmission ground wire and the battery cables anyway.

Sizzle! Baking soda cleans up battery cables:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

On the transmission ground wire I buy a new one or remove and scrub it clean and scuff up the ends with sandpaper or my wire wheel.
_________________
How to Post Photos
Everett Barnes - [email protected] | My wanted ads
"Water is the only drink for a wise man" | "Communication prevents complaints"
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

ayjay23 · Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 11:23 am Post subject:

Sometimes I hear a click but not from the starter turning. Most of the time it's just silence. My battery terms look fine. New optima 6v battery. I think I'll check the trans strap first. I will grab that horn relay tho of that's not the issue. Thanks for the baking soda tip though. I will add that to my bag of tricks.

Erik G · Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 12:08 pm Post subject:

when you turn the key, but don't hear anything, with the key still turned with your right hand, use your left hand to push in on the cap (or bare wires) on the oppisite side of the keys. If pusjing it in makes it start, it is indeed an issue with your ignition. Most of my type 3's have had this problem. ISP west makes a replacement, and sometimes have NOS ones around.

Everett's pushbutton suggestion is great too

ayjay23 · Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 12:34 pm Post subject:

I just pulled off the rear passenger tire to look at the starter and it all looks and feels tight and seems fine. Was hoping the trans strap was gonna be here as well but I don't see anything. My ground at the battery looks pretty bad so I'm gonna swap that out for sure. I also found a large Bosch relay on the rear driver side. Pretty far away from the starter so I'm assuming it's not what the issue could be.
As for the ignition switch itself, in regards to the opposite side of the tumbler under that black cap. There is no play when I push on it. Without putting more pressure than I feel would probably break something. I barely even feel it move when I'm turning the key.

ayjay23 · Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 1:27 pm Post subject:

looks like i found the location on my haynes book, looks like the front area of the transmission in the middle. ill go back under the car and check it out, gotta get the car up higher so my belly can clear!

ayjay23 · Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 4:45 pm Post subject:

ok, so i replaced both my battery and trans ground straps. it didnt fix the problem but i can now hear my starter popping once when i go to start it. im assuming thats the solenoid im hearing. i got it started a few times but its not cranking every time still. gonna check the fuse box and clean the connections there. just wondering since i can hear that pop when i turn the key if the solenoid or the starter itself is just bad. i am willing to do that hard start relay too if you guys think that is a possible fix given the popping noise. any info would be appreciated. or if theres anywhere else someone can point me to check out i would appreciate it.

Bobnotch · Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 4:50 pm Post subject:

ayjay23 · Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:48 pm Post subject:

just so i know in advance are all the 6v starters the same for vw? i know i had my generator rebuilt. is this an option to save a couple bucks? is there a way to actually test the starter out to make sure its bad before i dump almost 200 into a new one with shipping and core.

Bobnotch · Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 7:00 pm Post subject:


Hello! Log in or Register \| Help \| Donate \| Buy Shirts	See all banner ads \| Advertise on TheSamba.com

Sketchy ignition switch, push start potentially?
Page: 1, 2 Next

	Forum Index -> Type 3	All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time Page: 1, 2 Next
Page 1 of 2