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fastorange72
Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2004
Posts: 254
Location: BucksCo, PA
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 Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 11:40 am Post subject: Tie rod location |
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I am running into interference issues with installing my tie rod ends into the spindle. The rear most location does not have the correct matching taper and is too large, I think. The forward location seems more correct but runs into the brake hose.
1961 Beetle
4" beam
Drop spindles(might be cip1, got them long time ago)
Am I overlooking something, are the spindles screwy, just looking for some advice to move forward. Thanks!
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bdub475
Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2009
Posts: 577
Location: Los Lunas, New Mexico
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| Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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| What the hell? I've never seen spindles with two mounting holes. If it were me I'd buy some new spindles with a single tie rod hole per side. |
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Joe Bence
Samba Member
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 501
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Two holes have become common on resent years , use the rear hole , you need later tie rod ends. Drop spindles are made to use the late tie rods ends. |
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bdub475
Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2009
Posts: 577
Location: Los Lunas, New Mexico
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| Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| My drop spindles don't use the later tie rod ends. I'm pretty sure all ball joint drop spindles use the later ball joint tie rod ends. |
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drscope
Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2007
Posts: 15273
Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:11 am Post subject: |
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| bdub475 wrote: |
| What the hell? I've never seen spindles with two mounting holes. If it were me I'd buy some new spindles with a single tie rod hole per side. |
Do some research and educate yourself on Ackerman. Narrowed beam needs a different mounting location for the tie rod end in order to correct the Ackerman you screw up when installing the narrowed beam.
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Mother Nature is a Mean Evil Bitch! |
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VOLKSWAGNUT
Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007
Posts: 11056
Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 10:11 am Post subject: |
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PPfff.... .. Ackerman is only a problem IF you turn...
No worries.. 
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_________________
aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited |
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57BLITZ
Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2012
Posts: 2385
Location: DEEK - U.S.A.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 10:16 am Post subject: |
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| VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
PPfff.... .. Ackerman is only a problem IF you turn...
No worries..
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When it's not done correctly, temporary spare tires will wear out very quickly! lol!!
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drscope
Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2007
Posts: 15273
Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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Temporary spares, no shocks, bad Ackerman, trailing arms going uphill, and about 30 degrees negative camber on the rear.
Tries to tell me the car handles fine.
What do I know?
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fastorange72
Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2004
Posts: 254
Location: BucksCo, PA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Ok so mid '68 and up. Should the hole in the spindle be tapered or is just the tie rod end tapered? The spindle doesn't seem to be tapered at all. |
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VOLKSWAGNUT
Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007
Posts: 11056
Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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The knuckle steering arm should match the tie rod taper.
If not you may could save them with bump steer bushings.
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C12-6613-11
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_________________
aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited
Last edited by VOLKSWAGNUT on Tue Sep 16, 2014 5:48 am; edited 1 time in total |
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bdub475
Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2009
Posts: 577
Location: Los Lunas, New Mexico
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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Drscope. I'm very familiar with achermann. I raced karts years ago and set up my steering. The inside wheel in a turn has to turn sharper do to it making a smaller circle.
The hole closest to the pivot point on those spindles would have to be set up to a specific beam width to correct anything properly. Using the inner most hole would also quicken the steering compared to the stock location. I'm not claiming to be an expert or to know more than you do.
Last edited by bdub475 on Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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drscope
Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2007
Posts: 15273
Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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| bdub475 wrote: |
Drscope. I'm very familiar with achermann. I raced karts years ago and set up my steering. The inside wheel in a turn has to turn sharper do to it making a smaller circle.
The hole closest to the pivot point on those spindles would have to be set up to a specific beam with to correct anything properly. Using the inner most hole would also quicken the steering compared to the stock location. I'm not claiming to be an expert or to know more than you do. |
You are correct on many points. Keep in mind this stuff is all aftermarket, so sometimes it's difficult to know for sure what they were thinking and what they were trying to correct.
It may be an attempt at correcting Ackerman some even though it isn't going to be correct for every beam.
But you also need to look close at the holes. Early tie rod ends had smaller tapered studs then latter tie rod ends. And it appears you have two different size holes there.
So this may be a crude attempt to make a spindle/steering arm that can work with both size tie rod ends. Ackerman be damned.
Then there is also the trend to flip the tie rods on slammed cars. And since the tie rod end holes are tapered, you may discover that these holes are both the same size but have the taper going in different directions so you can use one hole for stock set up and the other for a flipped set up.
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bdub475
Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2009
Posts: 577
Location: Los Lunas, New Mexico
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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| I was thinking the same thing, that the double hole was to make them somewhat universal. Like you have said before in many post. Most lowered VWs suspensions aren't setup correctly and most of the time to the point of being downright dangerous. That's why I assumed that the extra holes wouldn't be to correct Achermann. Most that jump on in and cut a beam and slam a car aren't aware such a thing matters or exists. |
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