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Helfen
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009
Posts: 3450
Location: Vulcania
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 Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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Something to think about in California.
California auto emission laws say that vehicles shall be tested bi-annually ( unless a car becomes a gross polluter which is every year). This applies to vehicles from 1976 to present day cars. The law also says cars with exhaust controls ( all cars from 1966-1975) must have and maintain all their emission equipment. California law also says vehicles from 1966 to 1975 can be pulled back into the smog check program without a referendum ( vote) from the electorate. All Ca. needs to bring those vehicles back is a recommendation from the Ca. Air Resources Board or the Ca. EPA.
California, this year is implementing California Cap and Trade. Most of the emphasis of this bill was to target industry and energy producers to reduce Carbon emissions. What this means is a significant rise in the cost for energy ( like your natural gas and electric bills ) Companies have been leaving the state in droves in the last few years. I worked and retired from a major automotive manufacturer who left Ca. in 2006 as part of the reason. My wife was a HR manager for two large corporations that left, As we speak Toyota Motor is moving it's national headquarters to Texas.
The point I'm making is with all this industry leaving ( and I can site many more) California to meet the state's self imposed Cap and Trade emission laws the state has really no choice but to pull vehicles back into smog check. This is why the 1966- 1975 law was written the way it was. Government always picks on the little guy in these instances because legally it's easier to do than to go after corporation legal teams, and with business leaving will have little options but to do so. Rumors in the industry and out confirm this. |
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Spezialist
Banned
Joined: July 01, 2005
Posts: 1941
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| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Helfen wrote: |
| Spezialist wrote: |
| When an OBD II check engine light is on and you drive, you're putting out worse pollution than an old stock air cooled vw engine ever could under any circumstances. And on top of that, you're going to cost yourself more in repairs because of it. Just saying. |
Just how much do you know about OBD2?? You could leave your gas cap off or get a low pressure code from your power steering sensor ( Everything is going through the ECM these days) just to name a few of the sensors to trigger a check engine light compared to the emissions of a good running stock 1964 beetle. At idle that 64 would be putting out 3% CO and 600-800 PPM HC while a new car is putting out 1/10th of 1% CO or less ( sometimes you can't even get a reading) and less than 10 PPM HC. |
when there is an extra load, (in this case power steering) it harms fuel economy.
there are things waaay worse than co, and co2, like NOX, and hydrogen sulfide.
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Helfen
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009
Posts: 3450
Location: Vulcania
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| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Spezialist wrote: |
| Helfen wrote: |
| Spezialist wrote: |
| When an OBD II check engine light is on and you drive, you're putting out worse pollution than an old stock air cooled vw engine ever could under any circumstances. And on top of that, you're going to cost yourself more in repairs because of it. Just saying. |
Just how much do you know about OBD2?? You could leave your gas cap off or get a low pressure code from your power steering sensor ( Everything is going through the ECM these days) just to name a few of the sensors to trigger a check engine light compared to the emissions of a good running stock 1964 beetle. At idle that 64 would be putting out 3% CO and 600-800 PPM HC while a new car is putting out 1/10th of 1% CO or less ( sometimes you can't even get a reading) and less than 10 PPM HC. |
when there is an extra load, (in this case power steering) it harms fuel economy.
there are things waaay worse than co, and co2, like NOX, and hydrogen sulfide. |
What is the point your trying to make about Power Steering? The A/C compressor reduces fuel mileage too, so does your alternator and a water pump. What I'm saying is when the power steering pump starts to fail or has low pressure due to a worn pump or low fluid , the low pressure switch sends a trouble code to the ECM and turns on the check engine light. These days the ECM not only controls Fuel and ignition and emissions, in some cars it has taken over the whole management systems of the car including the air conditioning.
Your other point:
The EGR system (starting in 1973) and now cars with Three Way Catalytic converters take care of the Oxides of Nitrogen or NOX.
Catalytic converters do NOT produce Hydrogen Sulfide. Catalytic Converters change CO and HC to Sulfur dioxide and water. Sulfur dioxide is in far higher levels in the food we eat. It is used in food preservatives, nuts and raisins and in beverages.
Last edited by Helfen on Wed Sep 24, 2014 3:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Spezialist
Banned
Joined: July 01, 2005
Posts: 1941
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| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Helfen wrote: |
| Spezialist wrote: |
| Helfen wrote: |
| Spezialist wrote: |
| When an OBD II check engine light is on and you drive, you're putting out worse pollution than an old stock air cooled vw engine ever could under any circumstances. And on top of that, you're going to cost yourself more in repairs because of it. Just saying. |
Just how much do you know about OBD2?? You could leave your gas cap off or get a low pressure code from your power steering sensor ( Everything is going through the ECM these days) just to name a few of the sensors to trigger a check engine light compared to the emissions of a good running stock 1964 beetle. At idle that 64 would be putting out 3% CO and 600-800 PPM HC while a new car is putting out 1/10th of 1% CO or less ( sometimes you can't even get a reading) and less than 10 PPM HC. |
when there is an extra load, (in this case power steering) it harms fuel economy.
there are things waaay worse than co, and co2, like NOX, and hydrogen sulfide. |
The EGR system and now cars with Three Way Catalytic converters take care of the Oxides of Nitrogen or NOX.
Catalytic converters do NOT produce Hydrogen Sulfide. Catalytic Converters change CO and HC to Sulfur dioxide and water. Sulfur dioxide is in far higher levels in the food we eat. It is used in food preservatives, nuts and raisins and in beverages. |
really who knew? 
Edit: Not only does a broken catalytic converter create hydrogen sulfide a broken battery does the same thing.
It simply amazes me that the Internet is so hard for some people.
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greg mgm
Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2004
Posts: 573
Location: Pine Cove/ IdyllwildCA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:00 am Post subject: |
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Earlier this year, I passed by a roadside testing location in Hemet CA. I wasn't stopped since they were just setting up the cones. Later in the day I came back the other direction and saw they had all westbound vehicles stopped, funneled into the test site. CHP was doing the stopping, and it sure looked like a mandatory test to me. Sorry, but this irritates me. So, I emailed BAR and surprisingly got a reply back with this link-
http://www.bar.ca.gov/Consumer/Roadside_Inspection_Program.html
Scroll down to the 5th paragraph. It says it is a voluntary test and that there's no consequences if your car fails the test/ inspection. Ya, right. I understand the purpose of the roadside testing but stopping everyone to find the select few gross polluters doesn't seem right. |
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Helfen
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009
Posts: 3450
Location: Vulcania
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:47 am Post subject: |
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| greg mgm wrote: |
Earlier this year, I passed by a roadside testing location in Hemet CA. I wasn't stopped since they were just setting up the cones. Later in the day I came back the other direction and saw they had all westbound vehicles stopped, funneled into the test site. CHP was doing the stopping, and it sure looked like a mandatory test to me. Sorry, but this irritates me. So, I emailed BAR and surprisingly got a reply back with this link-
http://www.bar.ca.gov/Consumer/Roadside_Inspection_Program.html
Scroll down to the 5th paragraph. It says it is a voluntary test and that there's no consequences if your car fails the test/ inspection. Ya, right. I understand the purpose of the roadside testing but stopping everyone to find the select few gross polluters doesn't seem right. |
If yo know anything about this type of testing you would know that it is a data recording endeavor to see how well smog check ( bi-annual ) mandatory is doing and to see first hand the emission levels in real world scenarios. This also if found gives support to data on older cars ( 1966-1975 ) exempt from testing to be brought back into smog check.
In the early seventies I was performing EPA smog certifications, seven mode testing ( seven bag sample or seven types of pollutant ) dyno testing on pre production vehicles ( several model years ahead ) for my company. I also had a Ca. state smog , brake and lamp licences. The roadside smog checks in the early 70's not only tested the emissions, but also did the visual inspection for emission devise compliance. They sometimes checked headlight aim and lights and horn operation.
Was wondering Greg, if they are doing a visual inspection, were the hoods of the cars up?? |
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Gary
Person of Interest
Joined: November 01, 2002
Posts: 17069
Location: 127.0.0.1
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 11:21 am Post subject: Re: California roadside smog checkpoints |
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| aeromech wrote: |
| This is just unbelieveable. The California BAR (Bureau of Automotive Repair) is using roadside checkpoints to inspect vehicles. They are being assisted by the CHP. Apparently it's a voluntary check but my guess is that the voluntary part isn't advertised at the checkpoint. Looks like another excuse to remove our freedoms. |
And what freedoms are you referencing? Please show your work.
In the meantime, read up on how long environmental protection has been around in the United States:
Timeline of major U.S. environmental and occupational health regulation
Protection of US waterways alone dates back to the 1790s. You might also look into the Tragedy of the Commons Doctrine, which dates back to the 1830s and is being applied beyond its original scope of land use (think water and air).
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bluebus86
Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 3:23 pm Post subject: Re: California roadside smog checkpoints |
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| Gary wrote: |
| aeromech wrote: |
| This is just unbelieveable. The California BAR (Bureau of Automotive Repair) is using roadside checkpoints to inspect vehicles. They are being assisted by the CHP. Apparently it's a voluntary check but my guess is that the voluntary part isn't advertised at the checkpoint. Looks like another excuse to remove our freedoms. |
And what freedoms are you referencing? Please show your work.
In the meantime, read up on how long environmental protection has been around in the United States:
Timeline of major U.S. environmental and occupational health regulation
Protection of US waterways alone dates back to the 1790s. You might also look into the Tragedy of the Commons Doctrine, which dates back to the 1830s and is being applied beyond its original scope of land use (think water and air). |
if it was truly voluntary, then there would simply be a sign asking that folks please pull over for testing. CHP would not be needed, as no enforcement would be needed. why is law enforcement needed if it is voluntary? the cops should be catching illegals, robbers, rapists, killers. Please show your work
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rockerarm
Samba Member
Joined: December 16, 2009
Posts: 3552
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: December 16, 2009
Posts: 1200
Location: Los Angeles
rockerarm is offline
PostPosted: Today 2:33 pm Post subject: California's Roadside Smog Inspection via the B.A.R. Reply with quote
Hey all those here in Cali. Has anyone been "selectively" pulled over into one of our state's BAR smog check roadside checks? I know that pre-catalyst cars are exempt from the biennial smog check prior to vehicle registration but curious if anyone's been flagged into the pylons in an air-cooled car. Please discuss what transpired with the CHP officer and/or the BAR rep. Does your car raise "suspicious flags"? IE: Cal-Look car with IDA's. I have seen a couple of these checkpoints here in LA County, but was going the opposite direction.
Also, has anyone been accelerating up a freeway onramp and seen the state's sniffer out there trolling for gross polluters? I have in my '71 Bus that has Kadrons and I immediately "backed out of the throttle" as I cruised past the sniffer. There is a site that describes the situation, www.smogtips.com/remote_sensing.cfm
Out of stater's please comment if your state has a similar state run program and if you have been picked on.
Obviously, thanks in advance, Bill.
PS: I don't want to here anything about 4th amendment violations, etc. Different format here. Contact your local politicians.
PSS: Everett, if you think this belongs in the "General Chat" area, I respect your authority. I just think that this section gets a lot of views and is engine related.
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SoCalJes
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Joined: November 02, 2011
Posts: 1093
Location: Broward, FL
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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I'm so glad I don't need to worry about that BS any more.
I remember the hurdles I had to clear to get a smog certificate for an 800+ HP Camaro with a tunnel ram and two four barrel Holleys hanging out of the hood! It's wasn't easy...
Out here I can build what ever I want, My neighbor has a full size truck with about a 4 foot suspension lift and he get's no grief from the cops either.
I feel for you guys.
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71 Ghia
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Just because it didn't come that way, doesn't mean it shouldn't have. |
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croSSeduP
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VOLKSWAGNUT
Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007
Posts: 11056
Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 6:56 am Post subject: |
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I like OLD diesels..
How about all the light duty diesels? Ford, GM, Dodge.. that will roll a mountain of coal out the tail pipe when the hammer is nailed and a big "Do you mind if I smoke?" bumper stickers.
Ha...and the EPA killed the two stroke "Jimmy's"..
Good job EPA..
Are they subject as well since its a slightly different "sniff"
Granted I know its a small proportion of owners that delete their exhaust traps and pump up the oil juice... but in reality... how often does any state actually enforce any tampering or violations?
We have decent inspection guidelines in NC for "visual" tampering.. but unless its got a light on or fails the OBD scan it passes, and LD diesels are a visual only...
Its a money racket for the most part... that mainly only the US participates in... go figure..
Lets see how it goes when China is past the US in motor vehicle use.. Do you think they will give a crap about our air and environment ?
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aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
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Jon Schmid
Samba Member
Joined: May 29, 2012
Posts: 2038
Location: Southern California
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:07 am Post subject: California roadside smog checkpoints |
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| britegreenVWSB wrote: |
I LOVE San Diego. I'd move there if it wasn't in CA.
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Yeah, I'll remember how much CA sucks as another nor-easter hits the east coast while I'm grilling steaks in my T-shirt and shorts.  |
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VOLKSWAGNUT
Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007
Posts: 11056
Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:49 am Post subject: Re: California roadside smog checkpoints |
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| Jon Schmid wrote: |
| britegreenVWSB wrote: |
I LOVE San Diego. I'd move there if it wasn't in CA.
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Yeah, I'll remember how much CA sucks as another nor-easter hits the east coast while I'm grilling steaks in my T-shirt and shorts. |
 = .. Must get boring having all the good weather in the US..... 
.
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aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited |
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60ragtop
Bonneville Belt Bitch
Joined: March 13, 2006
Posts: 7800
Location: Big Wonderful WYO 82401
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:12 am Post subject: |
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Good weather is for wimps
Here it is a balmy 28 and passing the hospital on my walk, one roofer was getting a start on his tan working shirtless
And he probably has one of those "Mind if I smoke?" stickers on his lifted diesel.
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Rick
Certified Mechanic by the State of Michigan in 1977
ASA certified in 1987
Certified Hunter Wheel Alignment Master Technician 1986
| tasb wrote: |
I've restored a large number too, but I don't toot my horn quite as loud.
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| sb001 wrote: |
| maybe he just snapped cause his car sucked |
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Helfen
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009
Posts: 3450
Location: Vulcania
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:36 am Post subject: |
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| VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
I like OLD diesels..
How about all the light duty diesels? Ford, GM, Dodge.. that will roll a mountain of coal out the tail pipe when the hammer is nailed and a big "Do you mind if I smoke?" bumper stickers.
Ha...and the EPA killed the two stroke "Jimmy's"..
Good job EPA..
Are they subject as well since its a slightly different "sniff"
Granted I know its a small proportion of owners that delete their exhaust traps and pump up the oil juice... but in reality... how often does any state actually enforce any tampering or violations?
We have decent inspection guidelines in NC for "visual" tampering.. but unless its got a light on or fails the OBD scan it passes, and LD diesels are a visual only...
Its a money racket for the most part... that mainly only the US participates in... go figure..
Lets see how it goes when China is past the US in motor vehicle use.. Do you think they will give a crap about our air and environment ?
. |
Apparently you didn't listen to the last speech by the Whitehouse on Climate change in regards to China. It seems that the U.S. will double down it's efforts to reduce CO2 so that China can grow and pollute more. |
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VOLKSWAGNUT
Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007
Posts: 11056
Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:40 am Post subject: |
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| Helfen wrote: |
| VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
Lets see how it goes when China is past the US in motor vehicle use.. Do you think they (china) will give a crap about our air and environment ?
. |
Apparently you didn't listen to the last speech by the Whitehouse on Climate change in regards to China. It seems that the U.S. will double down it's efforts to reduce CO2 so that China can grow and pollute more. |
 ... that was kinda my point.... I guess its up to the US to save the world yet again..
Always believe what the politicians tell you.. riiiiiiight..
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_________________
aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited |
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earthquake
Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2008
Posts: 3984
Location: SANDY VALLEY, NEVADA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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Here in Vegas a car or light truck needs a emission's test if it is made after 1967, there's no smog equipment inspection on vehicles made before 1980, it just has to blow clean numbers, 1981 and needs all the smog gear or it fails. we do have a "Classic Car" plate that exempt the vehicle but you can only put 5000 miles on in a year, there are some other thing that go along with it but I am not sure what they are. The real thing that sucks is vehicles only need to be smogged in two Counties in Nevada, [Clark County-Las Vegas area and Washoe county-Reno area] the rest of the state has no smog test!
Casey
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