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VOLKSWAGNUT
Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007
Posts: 11055
Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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 Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 7:26 am Post subject: |
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| Letterman7 wrote: |
| Following the progression of this topic.. and have a stupid question: if you take the grub screw out from one of the tubes in the middle, top or bottom, would that also allow the spring stack to "float" just as if you replaced it with a swaybar? |
No.. removing the center grub/torsion lock bolt, will allow the springs to travel side to side though..
Its called fully dynamic and interactive steering. 
Loads of fun....great tire wear too....
.,
_________________
aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
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jsup
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2014
Posts: 246
Location: NJ
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
| Letterman7 wrote: |
| Following the progression of this topic.. and have a stupid question: if you take the grub screw out from one of the tubes in the middle, top or bottom, would that also allow the spring stack to "float" just as if you replaced it with a swaybar? |
No.. removing the center grub/torsion lock bolt, will allow the springs to travel side to side though..
Its called fully dynamic and interactive steering.
Loads of fun....great tire wear too....
., |
The challenge of not knowing where you're going to go next does add a level of excitement to any ride. |
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VOLKSWAGNUT
Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007
Posts: 11055
Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| jsup wrote: |
The challenge of not knowing where you're going to go next does add a level of excitement to any ride. |
And the drivers around you too... :
Texting and fidling with ya toys while driving aint got nothing on that....
.
_________________
aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
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slalombuggy
Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2010
Posts: 9145
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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No, removing the grub screw will not let the leaves float. They are still captured by the holder in the tube
brad |
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slalombuggy
Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2010
Posts: 9145
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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Adjustable spring plates are much cheaper and will do almost as good a job as far as adjusting ride heights I have them in my buggy and can get 2" of change with them. You'll also want to be or know a good welder if you put in one of the torsion adjusters. Lots of tension going through that part of the tube
brad |
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Letterman7
Samba Member
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 3198
Location: Downingtown, PA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
| Letterman7 wrote: |
| Following the progression of this topic.. and have a stupid question: if you take the grub screw out from one of the tubes in the middle, top or bottom, would that also allow the spring stack to "float" just as if you replaced it with a swaybar? |
No.. removing the center grub/torsion lock bolt, will allow the springs to travel side to side though..
Its called fully dynamic and interactive steering.
Loads of fun....great tire wear too....
., |
I'm sure! I guess I'm not grasping the concept of swapping a floating swaybar anchored at each end by the trailing arm won't float while a stack of leaves in the same configuration will? What am I missing here? |
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20378
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Letterman7 wrote: |
| Following the progression of this topic.. and have a stupid question: if you take the grub screw out from one of the tubes in the middle, top or bottom, would that also allow the spring stack to "float" just as if you replaced it with a swaybar? |
NO becasue leaves pass through same square design hole in center of beam as hole design in trailing arms, this is the anchor (anti rotation) point of leaf pack....... All center grub screw does is lock leaves centered to stop any side to side motion it (grub screw) has nothing to do for allowing or not allowing rotation of spring pack......
IF you had lowering or raising adjusters in center and pulled lock/clamp bolt, then yes center section would most likely rotate...
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
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All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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Letterman7
Samba Member
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 3198
Location: Downingtown, PA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 5:49 am Post subject: |
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| I understand that, Dale, but how would a non-center anchored sway bar differ from a non-center anchored spring pack? Wouldn't they both tend to move side to side in the tube? Mechanically speaking, aren't they the same thing at that point if neither version is anchored in the middle? |
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20378
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 8:10 am Post subject: |
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| Letterman7 wrote: |
| I understand that, Dale, but how would a non-center anchored sway bar differ from a non-center anchored spring pack? Wouldn't they both tend to move side to side in the tube? Mechanically speaking, aren't they the same thing at that point if neither version is anchored in the middle? |
You have answered your own question.... But your original question was would spring pack rotate if center grub screw was removed....
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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EVfun
Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 5474
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Dale M. wrote: |
| Letterman7 wrote: |
| I understand that, Dale, but how would a non-center anchored sway bar differ from a non-center anchored spring pack? Wouldn't they both tend to move side to side in the tube? Mechanically speaking, aren't they the same thing at that point if neither version is anchored in the middle? |
You have answered your own question.... But your original question was would spring pack rotate if center grub screw was removed....
Dale |
Yes but...
That is one of the features of the Formula Vee cars. Are you, or VWnut, suggesting they have some dicey handling issues from the upper arms moving side to side? I also remember that the Type III had the upper bar not anchored in the center, and used as a sway bar.
_________________
| Wildthings wrote: |
| As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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Q-Dog
Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2010
Posts: 8699
Location: Sunset, Louisiana
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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Don't the formula vee cars used a harder bushing between the arms and the beam tube to keep the arms from sliding in and out?
_________________
Brian
'69 Dune Buggy
'69 Beetle Convertible
'70 Beetle |
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VOLKSWAGNUT
Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007
Posts: 11055
Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 6:21 am Post subject: |
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Yep.. ^
When the Vee sway bar is used... with the protruding threaded ends it allows the torsion arms to be snugged down to those hard bushings which will resist any side to side movement.
If you try to use a Vee sway bar with stock seals.. it will tear them up.
I've seen a few use the Urethane or Delrin end bushings and a Vee bar..
Seems to work ok for the street. .
.
_________________
aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited |
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Letterman7
Samba Member
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 3198
Location: Downingtown, PA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:34 am Post subject: |
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| Ok... that's the info I was waiting to hear. Since I'm working on a very light road car I wanted to eliminate one of the stacks, or at least render it "useless" and turn it into a sway bar. Saves tearing everything apart.. putting bushings in should be a breeze/ |
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DWP
Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2007
Posts: 577
Location: Pa.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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If you use a thru rod make sure younuse delran, or aluminun(formula vee)
bushings on the end. The red urethane bushings tend to roll over.
Note, if you want a thru rod let me know I have a extra.
I went with a sway bar instead.
Willowgrove pa
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GS guy
Samba Member
Joined: December 03, 2007
Posts: 968
Location: Maryland
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Letterman7 wrote: |
| I understand that, Dale, but how would a non-center anchored sway bar differ from a non-center anchored spring pack? Wouldn't they both tend to move side to side in the tube? Mechanically speaking, aren't they the same thing at that point if neither version is anchored in the middle? |
The F-V sway bars I've seen (pics of) are round, and I think the biggest size was 3/4"? Square ends on the bar allow securing to the trailing arms, with one side using an axial thrust-setting bolt to set the side to side end play. Metal bushings between trailing arms and tubes take the side thrust. I believe the center of the bar simply slides through the center anchor, and being round doesn't engage it. So a simple swap-out as far as I can tell?
Jeff
_________________
70's vintage Deserter GS buggy - undergoing transformation to Super GS! |
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BIGMIKEY
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2007
Posts: 1104
Location: North East Pennsylvania
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GS guy
Samba Member
Joined: December 03, 2007
Posts: 968
Location: Maryland
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slalombuggy
Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2010
Posts: 9145
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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I put my sway bar in the top tube and the height adjuster in the bottom. It is much easier to get at the bottom tube to adjust the ride height. I forgot to add the part about the aluminum bushings between the beam and arms, sorry.
brad |
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EVfun
Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 5474
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| slalombuggy wrote: |
| I put my sway bar in the top tube and the height adjuster in the bottom. It is much easier to get at the bottom tube to adjust the ride height. I forgot to add the part about the aluminum bushings between the beam and arms, sorry. |
No problem. It confused the heck out of me for a bit... but that's my normal state of mind. 
_________________
| Wildthings wrote: |
| As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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