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Brian
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You may want to look at this thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=213366

Its called German look, you could possible reference their tire/wheel combos to get a good idea of what size you can use on an unlifted car, then add some inches after lifting. Late standards and Supers have IRS, I have 235/75/15 on the rear with a 3 inch lift, they only rub because my wheel offset is off.

You can also look into larger fenders:
http://vwinnovations.com/index.php?option=com_hika...;Itemid=86
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IslandJP
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone out there have any good info on street legal offroad/sand rear tires for VW's? I'm looking for something around 31x12.50 with a lighter load range (B) so they will puddle out nicely on the sand.The one in this photo is an example, it just isn't manufactured in a large enough size.
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dustymojave
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You might look into Goodyear Terra Tires, which have a much more aggressive chevron tread pattern. They've been around since the 1960s.

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Don't expect to use them on the highway. They don't take speed on pavement.

Goodyear Super Terra Tires have a heavier casing and tread with a straight single chevron pattern. They seem to get used a fair amount for forest and farm buggies in the midwest and east. Probably not as good for sand due to their heavier, less flexible casing.

The tires you posted are apparently intended for ATVs. Terra tires and others like them were intended for use on light landscaping and other such tractors like big lawnmowers.
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Vanapplebomb
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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dustymojave wrote:

Goodyear Super Terra Tires have a heavier casing and tread with a straight single chevron pattern. They seem to get used a fair amount for forest and farm buggies in the midwest and east. Probably not as good for sand due to their heavier, less flexible casing.

That and they dig a hole to China. I have seen a couple people try to use those chevron lug tires at the dunes here in Michigan...they got stuck a lot. The regular Terra tires are awesome though. Lots of people use those on the sand here with great results.


I do have to say that I have NEVER seen anybody ever get stuck with aircraft landing tires. They get great traction and float like none other on sand and dry dirt. Tough as nails too! All of the dune rides that I know of here use them of all four corners of their dune runners.

New aircraft tires are $$$ and are rather heavy as far as tires go. Most of them buggy sized are 8 to 12 ply. If you know someone that works at an airport hanger, you can get used ones with some life left in them for next to nothing. Wink

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Kenneth83
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JWHracing wrote:
Vanapplebomb wrote:
WHy do most of the buggies that run the Baja use rounded tires in the back?


keeps the transmission in one piece. side bite from a more square tire is hard on transmission/drivetrain when you need it to spin and keep you going rather than making traction.


Really? Is this pretty a pretty well agreed upon? I suppose it makes sense...so your saying like "supper swampers" and such not a good idea with a swing axel?

Just got my first rail (2.0 pinto, midengine, wing axel) and i`m looking for good tires for the desert that i can let the air out low and use in dunes. (9.5x15 rims.)
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dirtkeeper
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kenneth83 wrote:
JWHracing wrote:
Vanapplebomb wrote:
WHy do most of the buggies that run the Baja use rounded tires in the back?


keeps the transmission in one piece. side bite from a more square tire is hard on transmission/drivetrain when you need it to spin and keep you going rather than making traction.


Really? Is this pretty a pretty well agreed upon? I suppose it makes sense...so your saying like "supper swampers" and such not a good idea with a swing axel?

Just got my first rail (2.0 pinto, midengine, wing axel) and i`m looking for good tires for the desert that i can let the air out low and use in dunes. (9.5x15 rims.)


I think the point is that the more aggressive your tires the more chance they are going to "hook up" with the ground and break a transmission. If the tires can spin a little more freely your transmission will last longer. Case in point my tranny has broke twice. Both times the tires were stuck to the ground and the clutch dropped putting tremendous forces on the tranny. First time was me, then i learned and have never done it again and have had no problem even with a larger engine. Second time was my son,, so now he has learned (on my dime Mad )
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Kenneth83
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok...That makes sense. Thanks.
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dustymojave
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JWHracing and dirtkeeper are both right.

Rounded shoulder tires work best in the desert, especially on soft ground. Square shoulder tires dig in inconsistently and will dig down while similar width round shoulder tires will have more tendency to "float". Round shoulder tires allow sideways movement like power slides better too with less tendency to catch. Also, desert trails tend to be rounded bottom grooves where square shoulder tires are less "comfortable" and tend to grab at the sides of the grooves, resulting in twitchy handling. Another factor is that swing axle suspension also prefers round shoulder tires due to the way the wheels move in relation to the car. If you attend a desert offroad race, you would find that not only do many of the cars run tires such as Yokohama Dirt Digger III and Mickey Thompson Baja Pro, which both have rounded tread shape, many of the 7.00-15 front tires are shaved on the shoulders when new to provide a more rounded shoulder.

The Mickey Thompson Baja Pro 33x9.0-15
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which is designed for offroad racing and is not for street use, is a very close imitation of the Gates (later sold under the "Western Auto" brand) Sand Blaster which was the dominant tire in the 1970s and 80s in desert offroad competition.

Also available in a 30x7.0-15 which looks much like the Mini-Mag tire discussed below, but taller and with somewhat more rounded shoulders.

Their bias-ply offroad-only Mini-Mag tire is intended for use on the front of most buggies and is also an imitation of the Gates Commando XT (later also Western Auto Sand Blaster branded) 6.70-15. The Mini Mag was developed by MT tires to replace the Sand Blaster, which was no longer being made as Gates had dropped out of the tire business at the time and Chenowth had requested of Mickey that such a tire be developed for their Mini-Mag race car, which was a small light single seat race buggy with a snowmobile engine.
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While Chenowth is gone (and some products recently resurrected by another firm) and their Mini-Mag buggies all parked in back yards, and Mickey Thompson himself long ago murdered, Mickey Thompson tires still produce and sell their tires for offroaders.

Similar to the M/T Baja Pro is the also very popular Yokohama Super Digger III Y829 bias-ply.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Note that none of these tires are particularly well suited to use in sand dunes. They won't take the place of paddle tires. They are intended for rocky hard pack to sandwash desert use.
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dustymojave
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To pay a little more attention to IslandJP's question above...

For beach sand and some pavement use, you might look into Nitto's Dune Grappler tire. The unfortunate aspect of these tires is that while the tread design is similar to the BFG ATV tire you showed, and in spite of it's name, the Dune Grappler is marketed towards SUVs and mall parking lot duners. Initially only available in dub-style low profile and large rim diameter sizes (like 20"), they have become available in 16 and 17" sizes. With lug adapters, you could install them on a set of maybe 16" rims intended for a Ranger pickup or something of that sort.
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Kenneth83
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dustymojave,
Wow, very informative. Thank you. So... say your were going to put a set of desert tires on this buggy:
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(Motor is a 2.0 Pinto, swing axel transaxel)

What wheel/tire size, front and rear, would you go with? Nearly all my riding is actually done down in your neck of the woods!...Jawbone/Ridgecrest area.

Hope you dont mind me taking advantage of your wealth of knowledge!!
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dustymojave
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, climbing up the sand-dune like canyon sides of Jawbone and Dove Springs road is great for those paddles, but getting to and from them from camp or to a different area of canyon isn't gonna be too friendly to those tires. But you probably know that already. The Ridgecrest area all the way down to California City and Four Corners really doesn't offer any other sand areas.

Considering the chassis you have, which was really set up for dune use and without front shocks (good for dunes but terrible for hardpack desert trails) with that very light-duty Stiletto rack and the rear shocks not designed to handle hard pack, your car will not be blazing around in the hard pack desert. But you can putt around the trails and still have lots of fun and do tons of exploring. I have a neighbor down the block who has a similar chassis and he wants to go fast in the desert. I'm trying to guide him through that issue.

So for that chassis in hardpack desert such as around Wagon Wheel or over to Kelso Canyon or north to Robber's Roost, or through the El Paso Mountains to Burro Schmidt's Tunnel, a pair of 5-rib implement style tires would work well on the front:
http://www.pacificcustoms.com/tire5rib760.html
Or just a pair of 205-70 or 75 x 15 aggressive street radials would work nice. They would take more than the chassis can handle.
For the rear, some all-terrain or mud-terrain 235-75 x x15 to 31 x 10.50-15 tires should work quite well.

If you want to go faster and harder in the desert, and you might have the horsepower and torque to turn bigger tires and go faster, but with a swingaxle trans; and even if you have $4 grand invested in it, it's still a swingaxle; and no shocks on the front, the car is pretty limited and those tires I suggested would handle more than the car. I could make suggestions on how to improve the chassis for desert use, but it would be simpler and less costly to just start with a different car which was designed for such use.

Who knows, we may run across each other out there in one of those ares some day?
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Kenneth83
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the input! Yeah, this old rail is gonna have to do. I`ll play with the suspension and was planning on adding some good skid plates, I know the swing-axle rear end is not great for the hard pack. I suppose I`ll just have to take it out and see how I can improve.

I was planning on going the easy route and just getting a RZR, or maybe finding a good used rig somebody has done a good job on. I would love to build one, and have the fabricating skills to do it...just not the time at the moment! I traded my old 2004 honda 400 quad for this rail so I can have a passenger...so there's that!

Thanks again for your help, maybe I will see you out there sometime. What do you usually take out?
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

that you think of this tire?

MAXXIS MUDZILLA M8080

sizes
31x11.5 R15 6PR.
33x13.5 R15
35x13.5 R15

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like they could be good for a woods-buggy. Especially if every other lug was cut off. Probably not that great for sand though.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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i am running 31/10.5/15 bfg km2's all the way around my baja. they do rub a bit up front if i turn hard and hit a bump or go up a hill but i am cutting and re-sheet metaling my wheel wheels all the way around it so not that big of a deal. (and it is very minimal rub) i primarily run trails around my house which are more dirt, mud, ruts, and some sand. they run smooth on road and grip really well offroad have not gotten stuck with them yet. they air down really well also. only down side is the $1k to get them.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am new to the world of Bajas...bought mine three hours ago leaving Home Depot where I went for stuff for the '67 Deluxe microbus I've been restoring. I'm a Samba regular, just not on this thread. My newest toy has the B.F. Goodrich All Terrain TAs that seem to get favor on here (I read the first 2-3 pages of this thread). Forgive me for not plowing past page 3, but what kinda pressures should I generally be running on these at the front and rear? 235/75-15
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Brian
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On or off road?
probably 36 on and 8 off.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brian wrote:
On or off road?
probably 36 on and 8 off.


On. Same front and rear?
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd go all the way around.

Hypothesis is that lower pressure is more traction, higher pressure leads to higher mileage. Max for your size is 50psi. It might say the recommenced psi on the side. You just have to read if its under or over inflated.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am going to chime in a bit on this. It is absolutely dependent on your car and terrain for off-road use. It is dependent greatly on tire size and rim size. Make sure you still have enough side wall left that your rim is not cutting the tire when you hit a bump. I would say on road try 36 then 34 then 32 and so on. Find he spot where they are stuff enough for low rolling resistance but soft enough to absorb some of the bumps in te road. Off road start at 15 psi if you are running in the sand start around 12. If in the mud do not air down your tires. If out on dirt start around 20 and decrease in increments of 2 psi on all 4 corners I would say up front do not decrease below 10 psi as a thinner tire turns better
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