Author |
Message |
vw4life Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2005 Posts: 144
|
Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 9:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
Calling Christopher!
Spent the majority of yesterday afternoon reading about wheels/figment and appropriate tires.
84 westy 1.9. Stock. I love in So Cal and we have hills and I plan on using this for surf trips with plans next summer for a mammoth run and possibly big bear snowboard trips after work. The wife surely isn't camping in those temps
Looking at running either a set of Fuchs reps or gasburners. Let's focus on the Fuchs
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C32%2DFU551B
The Fuchs are 3.75" backspacing or 95mm. The backspacing of a stock steel wheel (14" x 5.5" - ET38) is 4-1/4" or >108mm. Based on this I assume my wheels will stick out 13 mm from stock. Will this be enough clearance? I bought a set of used wheels from another vanagon owner and finally got to mocking them up and there is so much negative offset they hit the sliding door!
As far as tires I want to run these. They are nearly stock size as I don't want to run an overly large tire. A bit bigger as this is 25. 195/70/15 vanco four seasons 25.7 vs 25.5. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=C...mpare1=yes |
|
Back to top |
|
|
vw4life Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2005 Posts: 144
|
Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Never mind on the Fuchs.
Just picked up these Audi 200 BBS. 5x112 35 ET
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
DAIZEE Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2010 Posts: 7552 Location: Greater Toronto Area Ontario West Side
|
Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 3:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Does anyone have Christopher's business phone number??? I really need to talk to him. Do you know what time zone he is in? Thanks
it's okay found his advertisement. Z _________________ '09 2.5L Jetta 5 cylinder, 5 spd, super turbo, see thread in H2O Cooled Jetta, etc...
83.5 Vanagon L Riviera Model with 98 1.9L TD AAZ 4 speed Daily Driver 3 out of 4 seasons (sold)
84 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg Westy WBX 4 speed (sold) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Yondermtn Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2007 Posts: 609 Location: Illinois
|
Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 8:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
Does anyone know who makes the Carrot wheels that VC sells?
VC was out of stock for a long while and now only carry the 16" version. I haven't received a response from them as to whether they will carry the 15". _________________ 1977 Westfalia 2.0FI 4spd
1990 Multivan 2.1 Auto |
|
Back to top |
|
|
DAV!D Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2013 Posts: 979 Location: EL CAMINO
|
Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 4:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
OZ type 14 wheels 5x112 ET 35, 16 x 7" Tires are 215/55/16 tires and rims fit on 2wd with no spacers or mods just need the proper lug.
With that said, I intend to use spacers, because the fronts are too close for my comfort to the upper balljoint. Also I can't put on the center caps. Just eye balling it, I think between a 5mm to 8mm spacer will allow the center caps to fit.
I sold my Westy in Denver and bought a beater tin top to take me home. The stock 14" tires were rough looking and I spotted these rims on CL, so I bought them and scrounged up some lug nuts to fit. _________________ 86 Syncro Build - Ecotec Motor Swap - Pop Top Conversion - Camper Build & Syncro Conversion |
|
Back to top |
|
|
levi Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2005 Posts: 5522 Location: Las Vegas
|
Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 5:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
That's a nice looking van
...and I don't want to be critical, we've already got enough tire police on this site, just want to mention for the archives that most tires in this size have a 93 load/1430 pound max, then you take off another 9% and we're at 1300#. _________________ One of these days I'm gonna settle down,
but till I do I won't be hangin round.
Going down that long lonesome highway,
gonna see life my way
https://youtu.be/cSrL0BXsO40 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
DAV!D Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2013 Posts: 979 Location: EL CAMINO
|
Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 5:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
levi wrote: |
That's a nice looking van
...and I don't want to be critical, we've already got enough tire police on this site, just want to mention for the archives that most tires in this size have a 93 load/1430 pound max, then you take off another 9% and we're at 1300#. |
Yea the tires will not stay for long. They are snow tires and pretty wore out, once I get back to FL these wheels will probably get another set of Hancock ATMs like I had on my Westy. _________________ 86 Syncro Build - Ecotec Motor Swap - Pop Top Conversion - Camper Build & Syncro Conversion |
|
Back to top |
|
|
PNWesty Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2010 Posts: 138 Location: Seattle
|
Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
Wondering what model VW this wheel came from. If you know, thanks!
.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Christopher Schimke Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2005 Posts: 5375 Location: PNW
|
Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
PNWesty, those are '98-'01 Passat, 16x7 ET45. Be aware that there is also a 15x6 ET45 version of that wheel that looks identical, other than the size of course. _________________ "Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)
*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected] |
|
Back to top |
|
|
vanonimous Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2013 Posts: 362 Location: Burien, Center of the Universe
|
Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 12:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I am just about to bore the centerholes on a set of 16x8 Audi wheels to try and fit to my syncro, how far IN do you guy machine the holes? _________________ If happiness is being a mechanic, owning a Vanagon is nirvana.
Lighting upgrades: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=578291 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
shepherdsond Samba Member
Joined: April 25, 2005 Posts: 439 Location: Bellingham, WA
|
Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 1:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Looking to Christopher or other knowledgeable folk to help me out here:
I purchased my Syncro with CLK wheels already fitted (A208 401 00 02, ET 37 7Jx16 H2, 98W16). These are mounted with BFG AT KO 225x75x16 tires. The seams on the swing arms have been ground and re-welded and these tires fit fine with no other mods (that I am aware of). The van is not lifted.
A year ago I purchased a set of 15” Passat alloy wheels to use for studs in winter (3B0601025A, 7.2x15H2, ET 45 - similar to the ones three posts up). A local Portland mechanic experienced in working with syncro wheels and tires bored out the centers for me, I did not specify a diameter assuming that he knew this better than I. This Fall I had the Passat wheels mounted with studded Hakkapeliitta C van tires (195x70x15). I just tried to mount them and am having all sorts of unexpected (!) difficulties.
My questions:
First, it looks like the lug nuts that the PO had used on the CLK’s are incorrect as they are conical and it looks like the CLK’s are ball section (which is also what I have read here). The conical nuts seem to have cut into the metal of the mounting surface (but the wheels run fine with no vibration or loosening). Before I realized this I also used these conical nuts on my Passat wheels with similar damage to part of the mounting surface of the lug holes. Should I be concerned about this?
Second, I asked around and Discount Import Auto parts told me that I needed their EMPI ball section lugnuts (pn# 70-2860-0). These are described as “ball section” but do not say if they are large or small. I suspect that they are large and that I need small (for both CLK and Passat wheels) because they do not seem to have a very large contact area but I am not sure, can anyone confirm either of these things (what size ball section the nuts are and what size I need for each wheel)?
Third, I could not get the new Passat wheels to balance and, rather belatedly, I realized that it was because the center bore of the front wheels was hanging up on the lip of the front hub. It looks like the diameter that the wheels have been bored out to is about 57mm and not the 66.56mm recommended here. There is a chamfer on the inside of the bore but it is not deep enough for the wheels to lie flat against the mounting surface. I assume I need to get them center bored again (or at least the chamfer deepened) for them to fit, the rears seem to fit fine but may need longer studs (can’t tell until I know I am using the correct lug nuts but they only have about 1cm of thread exposed). Presumably 66.56mm would be best?
Fourth, I thought the clearance between the rim and the suspension on the front was fine but now I realize that when the wheel is mounted flush with the hub there may not be enough room. From what I read here for an ET of 45 with a 15” rim I should probably be using a 10 mm spacer and longer studs – is this correct?
Thanks in advance for all the help! _________________ 87 Syncro Hightop Camper
3 knobs + solid shaft
2.2 Phase II Subaru
Hi-Top build thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=534517
Last edited by shepherdsond on Mon Nov 17, 2014 6:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
fyrgrrl Samba Member
Joined: May 21, 2006 Posts: 396 Location: The Evergreen State
|
Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 5:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
These numbers were on a set of steel wheels with Kumho Powergrip and Vredestein Comtrac winter tires (195/75R16C).
Will they fit a 1985 tin top or a 1987 Camper van? The seller says they came off a buddy's Syncro and he put them on his 2wd Westy camper for a while.
251 601 027A
5.5x16ET34
5 1/2JK 16H2 _________________ 1987 Vanagon Westfalia (manual) - "Van Hildegaard"
1987 Vanagon Westfalia (auto)
1985 Vanagon GL 7-passenger van (auto) - "Blau Frau"
1985 Vanagon GL 7-passenger van (manual) - "Braunkuh"
1998 Subaru Legacy Outback (auto)
2003 Subaru Legacy L wagon (auto) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Christopher Schimke Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2005 Posts: 5375 Location: PNW
|
Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
vanonimous wrote: |
I am just about to bore the centerholes on a set of 16x8 Audi wheels to try and fit to my syncro, how far IN do you guy machine the holes? |
For use on a Syncro, I would machine them to a depth of about 10mm. _________________ "Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)
*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected] |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Christopher Schimke Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2005 Posts: 5375 Location: PNW
|
Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
Quote: |
My questions:
First, it looks like the lug nuts that the PO had used on the CLK’s are incorrect as they are conical and it looks like the CLK’s are ball section (which is also what I have read here). The conical nuts seem to have cut into the metal of the mounting surface (but the wheels run fine with no vibration or loosening). Before I realized this I also used these conical nuts on my Passat wheels with similar damage to part of the mounting surface of the lug holes. Should I be concerned about this? |
I wouldn't worry too much about any grooves or other minor damage like that, but I would definitely switch to the proper lug nuts asap.
Quote: |
Second, I asked around and Discount Import Auto parts told me that I needed their EMPI ball section lugnuts (pn# 70-2860-0). These are described as “ball section” but do not say if they are large or small. I suspect that they are large and that I need small (for both CLK and Passat wheels) because they do not seem to have a very large contact area but I am not sure, can anyone confirm either of these things (what size ball section the nuts are and what size I need for each wheel)? |
Those Empi lugs are not correct for the Mercedes or Passat wheels. You are correct in that those Empi lugs are the large ball seat style, just like the Porsche style lugs. You need a set of small ball seat lugs for your particular Mercedes and Passat wheels. Shoot me an email to my contact info in my signature line and can help get you set up with these.
Quote: |
Third, I could not get the new Passat wheels to balance and, rather belatedly, I realized that it was because the center bore of the front wheels was hanging up on the lip of the front hub. It looks like the diameter that the wheels have been bored out to is about 57mm and not the 66.56mm recommended here. There is a chamfer on the inside of the bore but it is not deep enough for the wheels to lie flat against the mounting surface. I assume I need to get them center bored again (or at least the chamfer deepened) for them to fit, the rears seem to fit fine but may need longer studs (can’t tell until I know I am using the correct lug nuts but they only have about 1cm of thread exposed). Presumably 66.56mm would be best? |
You can either enlarge the centerbore or you can grind away a bit of the lip on the hub. Either method will work. If you have them bores opened up, I would have them done to 66.56mm to a minimum depth of 8mm. While you can get away with other dimensions, this definitely works.
Since bores of the wheels have previously been messed with, I would advise the machine shop to center the wheels off of an unmachined area of the centerbore due to the fact that you don't know for sure if the original machine work was done properly. If the original machine work was not done properly, the wheels may be more difficult to get the wheels to balance properly.
With the proper lug nuts, longer studs are not required, but you will be right at the edge of what is acceptable as far as thread engagement.
Quote: |
Fourth, I thought the clearance between the rim and the suspension on the front was fine but now I realize that when the wheel is mounted flush with the hub there may not be enough room. From what I read here for an ET of 45 with a 15” rim I should probably be using a 10 cm spacer and longer studs – is this correct? |
I would definitely recommend running spacers with those wheels. A 15x7.5 ET45 wheel moves the inner lip inboard a long ways. If you add spacers to the front, you will definitely need to install longer front studs, which means that you will also need to change the front wheel bearings. The good news is that if you add front wheel spacers, you will not necessarily have to have the front wheels remachined.
If you add spacers to the front, I would strongly recommend adding rear spacers as well. This will require longer rear studs, but the end result will be a much better fitting (and better looking) installation.
If you were ask me from the start what I would recommend, I would tell you to run a set of custom 15mm spacers front and rear that will prevent the need for machining the Passat wheels at all. TO go along with this, you would need new front and rear studs and set of small ball seat lug nuts. In my opinion, with the exception of having to install the new studs, this is the cleanest, safest and best way to get those wheels mounted. _________________ "Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)
*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected] |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Christopher Schimke Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2005 Posts: 5375 Location: PNW
|
Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
fyrgrrl wrote: |
These numbers were on a set of steel wheels with Kumho Powergrip and Vredestein Comtrac winter tires (195/75R16C).
Will they fit a 1985 tin top or a 1987 Camper van? The seller says they came off a buddy's Syncro and he put them on his 2wd Westy camper for a while.
251 601 027A
5.5x16ET34
5 1/2JK 16H2 |
While those wheels will physically bolt on, that tire diameter will have a pretty noticeable effect on the drivability...and not necessarily for the better. _________________ "Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)
*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected] |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Michael4104 Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2014 Posts: 340 Location: Livermore, Ca
|
Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
Quote: |
If you add spacers to the front, you will definitely need to install longer front studs, which means that you will also need to change the front wheel bearings. |
I understand about longer studs when using spacers, but what do you mean by "you will also need to change the front wheel bearings"? _________________ 1990 Wolfsburg Carat with new poptop.
1985 Westy now sporting a 1995 Jetta ABA 2.0L. Sold |
|
Back to top |
|
|
shepherdsond Samba Member
Joined: April 25, 2005 Posts: 439 Location: Bellingham, WA
|
Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
Wow, Thanks Christopher that information is priceless!
Just to be absolutely sure I understand you, when you say:
Quote: |
you can grind away a bit of the lip on the hub |
You are talking about the lip of the hub on the van that extends beyond the wheel mounting surface by about 5mm right (with an angle grinder maybe)? So if I understand this right, my easiest (not best but easiest and cheapest for now) option is simply to grind this lip down and purchase small ball lug nuts from you - am I correct?
Many Thanks,
David _________________ 87 Syncro Hightop Camper
3 knobs + solid shaft
2.2 Phase II Subaru
Hi-Top build thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=534517 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
shepherdsond Samba Member
Joined: April 25, 2005 Posts: 439 Location: Bellingham, WA
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Christopher Schimke Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2005 Posts: 5375 Location: PNW
|
Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Michael4104 wrote: |
Quote: |
If you add spacers to the front, you will definitely need to install longer front studs, which means that you will also need to change the front wheel bearings. |
I understand about longer studs when using spacers, but what do you mean by "you will also need to change the front wheel bearings"? |
The owner that the answer was directed to has a Syncro. In order to change the front studs on a Syncro, you have to pull the front hubs out of the upright. When you do this, the front wheel bearings get destroyed and you have to install new ones. That scenario does not apply to a 2wd. _________________ "Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)
*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected] |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Christopher Schimke Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2005 Posts: 5375 Location: PNW
|
Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
shepherdsond wrote: |
Wow, Thanks Christopher that information is priceless!
Just to be absolutely sure I understand you, when you say:
Quote: |
you can grind away a bit of the lip on the hub |
You are talking about the lip of the hub on the van that extends beyond the wheel mounting surface by about 5mm right (with an angle grinder maybe)? So if I understand this right, my easiest (not best but easiest and cheapest for now) option is simply to grind this lip down and purchase small ball lug nuts from you - am I correct?
Many Thanks,
David |
Yes exactly! Can grind away a bit of that lip to create clearance for the centerbore of the wheels, but in your case, with the wider wheels and high offset, you will need spacers anyway so grinding the hub is not necessary at all.
I was simply answering the questions in order. So to be 100% clear, you WILL need spacers for your application and because you will need to add spacers, you WILL NOT need to grind the lip on the hub. _________________ "Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)
*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected] |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|