2180 Head Options

[Calvatron]

Hi guys. I'm putting together a 2180 for my fastback. I've been saving up for about a year and I've got a whole bunch of parts thus far but I'm trying to decide on my heads. Here's my setup:

Brand new AS41 mag case
-full flowed
-bored for 90.5/92mm
-Stroker clearanced

82mm DPR deluxe crankshaft with type 1 journals

5.4" AA forged chromoly I beam connecting rods

AA 92mm Thick wall P&Cs. 92mm at the case, 94mm at the head

Norris 355S Cam. Matching Scat HD lifters.

Pertronix 009 style distributor with electronic ignition

Rebuilt a set of 44 IDFs, and I have CB performance's type 3 kit to run them without messing with my engine compartment. Short manifolds and squatty air filters.

Remote filter kit, and a Scat 8 pass remote oil cooler. (Question here: do you guys think I should put the cooler in line with my filter, and run the stock type 3 oil cooler with it, or just replace the stock filter with it? Worried about getting my oil too cold.)

Going to be buying a deep sump kit here shortly so my lines don't suck up all my oil.

I'm going to be using the stock type 3 cooling system. I do realize that I'm going to need to clearance the shroud a little bit to make the full flow action work.

Little bit worried that I might have to upgrade my transmission. I'm running my stock '67 type 3 tranny right now.

I was going to run a 9:1 compression ratio but I'm second guessing myself. I drive the car every day to work and college, and both are within five minutes of my house, and are mostly highway driving. Right now I have a stock 1600 dual port with dual 32 Solex PDSITs and it's working really well other than the fact that I get a little hot going up the hill on my way home. I just figured that since I could afford it, I'd do a performance build. I can borrow a car from my folks if I need to fuss with my type 3, and I've got a super beetle that really just needs an engine and wiring that I'm going to be fixing up here pretty soon for another driver. I'd like to be able to drive my fastback to the Sacramento Bugoramas, but I've got to drive over the mountains from Carson City, NV to get there, and it's like a 2 1/2 hour drive. Do you guys think 9:1 is too hot of a ratio for a drive like that twice a year? Should I tone it down? I hate to go low and not get the most out of my engine.

I'm also getting overwhelmed by how many choices of heads there are out there, and all the different claims people are making about them. I'm curious what you guys think would be a decent head to run. I think the biggest I can go on the exhaust is a 1 1/2" merged header since I have a type 3, so I know that's a bit of a limiter. I'd love to hear your guys opinions of my setup and your ideas for heads/compression ratios and any advice you might have. Thanks!

[bugguy1967]

Well what ratio rockers do you plan on running? That's an unusual camshaft. The site states that it can be run with 1.1:1, 1.25:1, and 1.4:1 rockers, so I guess it's meant for 1.4 rockers.

If you're going with 1.4 rockers (approx .500" lift), then 40x35 valved heads will be too small. You'll need 42x37 heads. If you go with the 1.25s (approx .440" lift), then 40x35 valved heads will be better suited. For either choice, CB's Los Panchitos (40x35) or Mini Wedge (42x37) are good choices.

9.0:1 static compression will be absolutely fine. Your engine will most likely require 91 octane.

Those CB filter assemblies might not fit btw. I had to use those crappy EMPI clip-on square ones because the threads hit the underside of the firewall. Everything might just fit if you don't use any of CB's thick ass gaskets. Try all thin paper gaskets on the head, manifold, and between the filter assembly and carb.

[jfats808]

Send it to your local vw machine shop if you have one near you and get the case ff for type 3. Do the oiling system right. Im not familiar with Norris cam blanks but on the safe side, id get rid of them scats and get cb lightwieghts. Scats have a tendency to pit if not slr traeted. Well worth investment. Magnum plus oval port 40x35s or tims stage 1s is a better fit for your selected cam in my perspective. Youll be right in the happy zone for 40mm valves. That cam has a lot of advertised duration for a cam showing only 246 at 50. I would go the 1.4 ratio route and get rid of the 8 pass cooler. A full 72 pass with fan would be worth the time and money if youre going to do a cooler. 9 to 1 is doable due to a little extra duration on the cam. A well ported set of 40 x 35 s capabilities are sometimes underestimated.
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[mark tucker]

whats the advertized duration??? .330 is the lift. I would go with the cb or bugpoop or scat 1.4 ratio rockers. and probably thecb lostpan of cheetos if there avalible, or the cb mini wedgeports.or mofoco 042/050. As for cooling Im not familulr with all the type 3 stuff, but the carbs need to be synced good,flywheel tight,other flywheel/fan tight. and make sure all air pumped is used for cooling no unused air leaking anywhere.

[bugguy1967]

[bugguy1967]

[jfats808]

[Alstrup]

CSP, A1 and also TT makes 1 5/8" headers for type 3, no problem.

2180 cc type 3

New Mag case.
CB 82 mm crankshaft.
5,4” Race rods H beam. 356 style oil squirters.
92 mm thick wall AA cylinderset. 1,2 mm deck.
Web 109/110 camshaft. CB lightweight lifters
Manton pushrods.
26 mm Shadek O ringed oil pump, blueprinted. Full flow.
043 heads, 42 x 37,5 mm valves, D port. 182CFM @ 0,600” and 25”. 9,5 – 1 CR.
Stock rockers on bolted shafts, Porsche style adjusters.
German 009 distributor w. Ignitor module. Pertronix 3 ohm coil.
42 mm DCNF carburettors on Berg type 3 manifolds. Home made intake stacks. K&N airfilters.
CSP Python exhaust system. 1 5/8”
Power is a little stiffled due to only 10" of intake length. But still pulls quite nice.
146 hp @ 5200 rpm.
225 Nm @ 3750 rpm peak.

It is important to make small air horns for the carbs, so that it will mix better. They should be about 18-20 mm from carb body. Jenvey have some nice and very short air horns that you might be able to use. I usually make them myself. (If you are ready to go fancy, a set of Raptor venturies would be a perfect choice with low stack, but also kinda expensive for overseas customers)

Oil cooling in addition with the stock cooler.
It´ll haul a 3,88 /0,89 transmission with out problems.

[mark tucker]

very gentle ramp,should be quiet&easy on parts.(if done properly) I like low lift cams,much better to make it up with raito.

[mark tucker]

very gentle ramp,should be quiet&easy on parts.(if done properly) I like low lift cams,much better to make it up with raito.

[[email protected]]

.330" at the cam is .360" at the valve with 1.1 rockers. Saying it's compatible with 1.1 rockers, or even 1.25s, is very misleading, because you "can" use it, but it'd be a very poor choice.
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[Danwvw]

http://norriscams.com/Norris_Cams_Duration_Lift_Specs.html
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[Anvil]

Your 2180 is going to end up very similar to mine. I went with Aircooled's L5 heads based on the Revco casting. Dual 44s, Web 163 cam, 1.24 rockers, and 9.3-1 compression (altitude is about 6,000'). I run 91-octane, I've never had any pinging with it and the engine runs strong & very cool in our temps.

The L5 heads were nice. Only real criticism is there were lots of sharp edges that needed working and I had a freak broken rocker shaft stud within about 100-miles (and not from over-torquing). Replaced that and it's been trouble free ever since.

If I had it to do over again, I'd have gone with slightly bigger, better flowing, 42x37.5 heads, and more cam....it never ends.

As it is in a heavy '62 beetle heavy, it still moves out smartly.
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[GTV]

[Alstrup]

GTV, you are about correct That said I have had OK luck with using IDF´s set up the way I described above. One thing I did not menthion is that when using IDF´s it becomes even more important to use an SVDA ignition system. That will aid very much in, if not curing then at least minimizing a typical lean spot going from idle to full load circuit in the 2500ish rpm range. but the small air filters are a problem, and will only support "so much" power and rpm.
I know from some tests I did on a 1914 type 3 back in 2008 or 9, that the low filters are sufficient up to at least 120 hp. It only lost 2 hp with the filters on, but the torque curve was affected much more. The fuel mix was also MUCH better with the small airhorns installed compared to none.

T

[bugguy1967]

It'd be nice if there was a T3 manifold available to adapt dual DCOE side drafts.

[Alstrup]

DCOE manifolds are relatively easy to fabricate. The linkage is the challenge. Also fuel condensation on the outer diameter becomes a problem. There is a trade off.

T

[David Wayne]

When talking about rebuilding a Type 3, and referencing "stock ratio rockers," I am under the impression that the T3 came from the factor with 1.25 rocker arms. Is this correct?

[modok]

no, 1300/1500/1800 rockers are 1.1-1 ratio

[Calvatron]

I appreciate the advice you guys. I think I need to go with a set of 42 x 37.5 heads and 1.4 rockers to make up for the low lift on my cam. I was just hoping to have it still be somewhat driveable, but maybe I ought to just get a higher lift cam and stop trying to make up for it. Either way, I'm gonna keep looking around at feedback/prices on heads and see who looks good.

As for the carbs, I went with the IDFs because I got a smokin' deal on them. I think for money's sake, I have to roll with them but that doesn't mean I can't swap 'em out further on down the road if I'm not loving the IDFs.

I really appreciate the advice, again. Guess I haven't been in the game long enough to do these things the right way myself quite yet!