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vwracerdave
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 15309
Location: Deep in the 405
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 Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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You can always get a 2nd set of rear wheels and use larger tires for long road trips.
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2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK |
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wellcraft
Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2014
Posts: 647
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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Is the final drive same as ring and pinion (r/p)?
If they are the same it looks like I have 3. 875. Here I have the specs for my transmission, I think im good to go with just a rebuilt. It's on the shop manual that covers the mexican beetle from 1988 to 2004.
Link https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1258384.jpg |
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wellcraft
Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2014
Posts: 647
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Any idea? |
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itHaKa
Samba Member
Joined: February 20, 2008
Posts: 254
Location: Argentina
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| Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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the last vw beetles produced in brazil were 1600 dual carbed
and they had 3.88 and a .89 4th , stock from the factory ! , and designed by VW Engineers
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76x88 , 1849cc engine build :
http://mundoescarabajo.com.ar/me/viewtopic.php?t=635 |
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wellcraft
Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2014
Posts: 647
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| itHaKa wrote: |
the last vw beetles produced in brazil were 1600 dual carbed
and they had 3.88 and a .89 4th , stock from the factory ! , and designed by VW Engineers |
Mine is fuel injected. My transmission says Brazil in the right side but is a Mexican Beetle. |
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itHaKa
Samba Member
Joined: February 20, 2008
Posts: 254
Location: Argentina
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| Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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there is a procedure on how to know which tansmission ratio you have
jack up the car , put it in 2 nd gear , mark a rear wheel in a possition
and turn it one complete revolution,at the same time count the numbrer of turn the crankshaft pulley turns or if no engine , the mainshaft turns on the trans
8 turns , means 3.88 ( 8 31 )
8 and half turns , 4.125 ( 8:33 )
9 turns , 4,375 , ( 8 35 )
source : http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=342148
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76x88 , 1849cc engine build :
http://mundoescarabajo.com.ar/me/viewtopic.php?t=635 |
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wellcraft
Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2014
Posts: 647
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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Unfortunately, the transmission is out on and ready to ship tomorrow, so I can't check that. But I got the information from the shop manual that covers the mexican beetle from 1988 to 2004.
Here is the Link https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1258384.jpg |
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sactojesse
Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2006
Posts: 2655
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 9:33 am Post subject: |
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| wellcraft wrote: |
| Is the final drive same as ring and pinion (r/p)? |
In that context, yes, but I've also seen "final drive ratio" used to refer to ring and pinion ratio multiplied by top gear ratio, which in this case would be 3.875 x .93 = 3.60.
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1966 Karmann-Ghia convertible |
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Bruce
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17290
Location: Left coast, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| wellcraft wrote: |
Unfortunately, the transmission is out on and ready to ship tomorrow, so I can't check that. But I got the information from the shop manual that covers the mexican beetle from 1988 to 2004.
Here is the Link https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1258384.jpg |
The technical data in that link is completely WRONG! Those are the gears for German made gearboxes, and VW of Germany hasn't made a Type 1 gearbox since the early 80s.
Your Brazilian made gearbox in your Mexican Beetle has a 4.37 R&P. This is lower geared than any 1600 equipped German Beetle ever made. The reason VW of Mex did this is because the overwhelming majority of Beetles in Mexico were driven in the city only, no freeway use.
In the USA, these cars need a taller gearbox. The one to use is a 4.12. A 3.88 would be a huge mistake, IMO.
But.... installing a 4.12 into your existing Brazil gearbox is not a good idea. Best is to get a German gearbox with a 4.12.
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| overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
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Ace
Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2003
Posts: 1903
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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I had a bone stock 73 type I standard, stock dp 1600, that had the stock 3.875 with the .89 4th. I liked the way it was geared. Very well balanced.
My heavier 68 type 3 had that in it during a transaxle rebuild and it didn't seem as balanced but was decent probably due to weight. The 4.12 was better.
My 64 vert with that gearing and a 1385 40 horse in it is an issue. Only on the long incline passes though. |
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wellcraft
Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2014
Posts: 647
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:24 am Post subject: |
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| Bruce wrote: |
| wellcraft wrote: |
Unfortunately, the transmission is out on and ready to ship tomorrow, so I can't check that. But I got the information from the shop manual that covers the mexican beetle from 1988 to 2004.
Here is the Link https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1258384.jpg |
The technical data in that link is completely WRONG! Those are the gears for German made gearboxes, and VW of Germany hasn't made a Type 1 gearbox since the early 80s.
Your Brazilian made gearbox in your Mexican Beetle has a 4.37 R&P. This is lower geared than any 1600 equipped German Beetle ever made. The reason VW of Mex did this is because the overwhelming majority of Beetles in Mexico were driven in the city only, no freeway use.
In the USA, these cars need a taller gearbox. The one to use is a 4.12. A 3.88 would be a huge mistake, IMO.
But.... installing a 4.12 into your existing Brazil gearbox is not a good idea. Best is to get a German gearbox with a 4.12. |
I guess I'm going to have them check what I have as soon as they open the transmission. I do agree with you as I was thinking the same thing about beetles in Mexico driven in city, That's what I been thinking too. |
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wellcraft
Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2014
Posts: 647
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:04 am Post subject: |
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Just ģot off with the po and he says he believes it was 4k rpm's when he was doing about 65 to 70 mph. I know is a 5 miles difference but he wasn't quite sure on the miles perse.
I'll definitely be asking what I have when they take apart the whole tranny. |
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wellcraft
Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2014
Posts: 647
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:31 am Post subject: |
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Got an email from the transmission guys and my transmission has a 4.37 ring and pinion, not 3.88 as per factory manual.
so should I go lower or not, 4.12 or ????? |
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wellcraft
Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2014
Posts: 647
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:39 am Post subject: |
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| Slow 1200 wrote: |
| check what you have now, it's most likely a 4.375 r/p |
Man, u were right, the car came with what u said.4.37. |
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vwracerdave
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 15309
Location: Deep in the 405
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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Do what Bruce said. Get a German gearbox with a 4.12 R&P gear.
_________________
2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK |
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gears
Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2002
Posts: 4391
Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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Your 8-bolt 4.37 is worth money to someone ..
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9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
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wellcraft
Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2014
Posts: 647
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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The transmission is already at rancho and they are working on it. So I will have to keep what I have. At this point I would have to spend even more to find something else (German) used without knowing the condition or history of the transmission.
It takes to much time to remove that thing from the car and I prefer a rebuilt unit so I don't have to worry about it for a long time.
They said they could change the r/p from 4.37 to a 4.12 and .82 4th gear. What do u guys think?
Or should I keep what it has?
This is what I want.
I would like to be able to use my bug at hwy speeds (70 to 75 mph) for 6 to 8 straight hours.
I will be using the car mostly city and sometimes hwy but for short period of time. Might hit the hwy 2 or 3 times a month for maybe 3 hours one way or 6 both ways. We don't have mountains in my area, is not flat like Florida but is not hilly either. Might move to Charlotte NC from GA but its not hilly either.
What I would like to do is lower my rpm's a bit to save a bit of gas and help the engine to run at lower rpm, I'm guessing by doing this the engine life could be extended (right) and will be running more comfortable at hwy speeds. I understand what Bruce mentioned that these cars were designed more for city than hwy and that is why I'm assuming the 4.12 would be better in my case.
I will like in the future to go with a 1776 stock engine, around 70hp.
They are waiting for me to make a decision so they can start working on it, |
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wellcraft
Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2014
Posts: 647
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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Is this the gasket set I need to replace the rear axle tube retainer gaskets and o-rings, I noticed there is a bunch of gaskets and I did a quick search and it looks I need to put several of them. How would I know how many I need to put back?
Not sure if this a gasket set for the whole transmission.
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC-111-398-005 |
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Bruce
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17290
Location: Left coast, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| gears wrote: |
| Your 8-bolt 4.37 is worth money to someone .. |
But it's a Brazilian 4.37, with those silly M9 holes in the ring gear.
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| overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
| ..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
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Bruce
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17290
Location: Left coast, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| wellcraft wrote: |
Is this the gasket set I need to replace the rear axle tube retainer gaskets and o-rings, I noticed there is a bunch of gaskets and I did a quick search and it looks I need to put several of them. How would I know how many I need to put back?
Not sure if this a gasket set for the whole transmission.
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC-111-398-005 |
That set will get you some of the gaskets you need, but not all. Between the axle tube flanges and the side covers, you have O-rings. That kit doesn't give you this o-ring.
Tell Rancho you have O-ring flanges on your axle tubes, and ask them to include the right o-rings and the paper gaskets to set the freeplay.
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| overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
| ..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
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