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6Laytons
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2014
Posts: 69
Location: Utah
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 Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:09 pm Post subject: rear brake drum sliding in and out |
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I'm servicing the bearings on a 1968 manx (1964 VW beetle rolling chassis that was upgraded to IRS rear suspension) that has the IRS rear suspension and I'm noticing that the brake drums can slide in and out about 1/4" even after the rear axle nut is completely tightened down. Did I miss something or do these axles normally have some play in them? I took the nut off and whacked the drum so that it is nice and tight to the back plate but that just makes the drum impossible to turn so I had to whack the axle out that 1/4" and now it turns nicely but I can see the brake shoes by that 1/4"
If anyone can help on this puzzler I'd really appreciate it.
I know that I put all the bearings and oil seals in just the same way they came out but I'm wondering if there is supposed to be some sort of washer shim in there as well? |
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jsturtlebuggy
Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2005
Posts: 4496
Location: Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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What brake drum are you using? A early Bug wide 5? A late 4lug? a type 181 (thing) wide 5 drum, or something else?
Sometimes a picture can replace a thousand words. And would make it easier then just guessing now as to what your experiencing.
_________________
Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960 |
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VOLKSWAGNUT
Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007
Posts: 11056
Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:14 am Post subject: |
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Is the entire shaft sliding or just the drum..?
See if the inner CV flange is moving as well.
Sounds like a wrong combination or assembly of drums, shafts and or spacers.
Once the axle drum nut is tightened it should have very little to no in and out or up and down movement.
.
_________________
aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited |
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20379
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:20 am Post subject: |
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All the above..... Make sure all the parts are there and in correct sequence... IF everything is correct (by assembly graphic) , then it may be a "short" axle brake drum from different era... IF so, generally a spacer is put between between castle nut and drum to make up for space problem as IRS stubs require a long axle drum... Be sure drum is correct width for brake shoes... If drum surface is for narrow shoes it may bind up when you try to bring axle nut up to torque...
Maybe ...
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C13-22-5281-7
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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6Laytons
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2014
Posts: 69
Location: Utah
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Dale M. wrote: |
All the above..... Make sure all the parts are there and in correct sequence... IF everything is correct (by assembly graphic) , then it may be a "short" axle brake drum from different era... IF so, generally a spacer is put between between castle nut and drum to make up for space problem as IRS stubs require a long axle drum... Be sure drum is correct width for brake shoes... If drum surface is for narrow shoes it may bind up when you try to bring axle nut up to torque...
Maybe ...
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C13-22-5281-7
Dale |
Ok, I'll take some pictures and get as much detail as I can. Do you by chance know the difference in length of the long axle vs the short axle and the long axle drum vs the short axle drum?
Thanks |
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6Laytons
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2014
Posts: 69
Location: Utah
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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| VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
Is the entire shaft sliding or just the drum..?
See if the inner CV flange is moving as well.
Sounds like a wrong combination or assembly of drums, shafts and or spacers.
Once the axle drum nut is tightened it should have very little to no in and out or up and down movement.
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It's the entire shaft that is sliding with the drum attached to the shaft |
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jsup
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2014
Posts: 246
Location: NJ
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
Is the entire shaft sliding or just the drum..?
See if the inner CV flange is moving as well.
Sounds like a wrong combination or assembly of drums, shafts and or spacers.
Once the axle drum nut is tightened it should have very little to no in and out or up and down movement.
. |
That's a great breakdown. I'm going to need it. Do you have the other side of it that tells you what the parts are??
Specifically 12 and 22 I'm assuming they are bearing races. |
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20379
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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Think 12 and 22 are the seals...
Also during assembly be sure inside bevel on spacers are turned correct way....
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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VOLKSWAGNUT
Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007
Posts: 11056
Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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| jsup wrote: |
That's a great breakdown. I'm going to need it. Do you have the other side of it that tells you what the parts are??
Specifically 12 and 22 I'm assuming they are bearing races. |
Found it here. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=405966
And as for drums..
5 x 205 wide five drums are for both short axle and 67 short spline long axle swing axle.
4 x 130 drums are for 68 up long spline long axle swing axle and cv joint hub axle.
But...either drum can be adapted to work to just about any combination.
.
_________________
aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited |
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6Laytons
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2014
Posts: 69
Location: Utah
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, I think I got it figured out and it's all nice and solid now. Moves nicely on the bearings and no side to side slop. Next big task now is to replace the shifter tube sleeve that has worn out.
Thanks |
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manxdavid
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2003
Posts: 1841
Location: David Jones, Anglesey, North Wales, UK. Manxclub #678.
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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| So what was the problem? |
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6Laytons
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2014
Posts: 69
Location: Utah
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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| manxdavid wrote: |
| So what was the problem? |
It just needed a shim. |
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jsturtlebuggy
Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2005
Posts: 4496
Location: Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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So what brake drum are you using?
How thick of shim did it need?
_________________
Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960 |
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