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sloboatnova Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2009 Posts: 989 Location: Broken Arrow, Ok
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:08 am Post subject: bought thing beams. |
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I stumbled accross a thing beam with everything from spindle to spindle for $100. Woooo. I want to completely go through it before putting it on my baja so I have to decide what all I want to do to it. It appears the shock mounts have already been re-inforced. Am I correct to assume they bolt up the same? I know the tube spacing is the same, but thats all I know.
This list is for sure.
1. move my ghia disk brake parts over.
2. weld on hook stops.
3. weld mounts for the front bumper.
4. check and replace (if needed) the ball joints.
Here are some questions.
Are the torsion leafs the same as a ball joint beetle? The PO had modified them to try to lower it. Thats all I know. I might use the leaves from my current beam. Is the beam even the same width?
Whats the advatages of using the control arm bushings over the needle bearings?
Right now, my car has been cut and turn about 5/16". Being as the thing has lift spindles, can I leave it and not loose ground clearance?
Is the shock locations different, or can I use the shocks off of my beetle beams? _________________ Ms Hoover, I glued my head to my shoulder.
3BT Baja build page
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=417564&highlight=3bt+baja |
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GTV Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2004 Posts: 2084 Location: Si'ahl
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:18 am Post subject: |
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The Thing spindles are raised, and meant for stock drums. How do you plan on making the Ghia discs work? _________________ EMPI Power Rules! |
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sloboatnova Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2009 Posts: 989 Location: Broken Arrow, Ok
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Brian Samba Moderator
Joined: May 28, 2012 Posts: 8340 Location: Oceanside
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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yes, yes and yes.
Everything is the same except the spindle. Leaves are the sane. you need a caliper bracket and t1 bearings; ghia, bug and thing are all t1 based. I'm doing the same thing with ghia parts, you just the right bracket. _________________ Wash your hands
'69 Bug
'68 Baja Truck
'71 Bug
'68 Camper
Only losers litter |
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Mal evolent Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2009 Posts: 2912 Location: San Antonio, Nuevo Mexico
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Brian Samba Moderator
Joined: May 28, 2012 Posts: 8340 Location: Oceanside
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oldschool5er Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2007 Posts: 804 Location: Ohio
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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They are thing specific and 20% stiffer as stated, they will also fit in a T-1 beam. The Germans did a pretty good job making the thing off road durable. I know this from fact because I have won the Baja several times and many Pro races using a stock non rotated thing front end with the only failure in races being the steering box and a few shocks before we were allowed to go Rack and pinion. It was before hook and pin we just used a bottom limiter and the stock shock bumpers on Bilsteins. Never lost a ball joint. I am a very big thing fan of course. |
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Brian Samba Moderator
Joined: May 28, 2012 Posts: 8340 Location: Oceanside
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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What happened to the steering boxes that caused them to fail? _________________ Wash your hands
'69 Bug
'68 Baja Truck
'71 Bug
'68 Camper
Only losers litter |
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sloboatnova Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2009 Posts: 989 Location: Broken Arrow, Ok
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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:20 am Post subject: |
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Those CNC brackets look awesome.
The beam I got has a steering box attached. I haven't looked at it much. Are they the same as a bug steering box? If not, which is better? Whats the difference?
As for the torsion springs, I'm going to try using bug springs to avoid buying them. If they don't work out, thats easy enough to replace later. I would imagine things are heavier hence the need for heavier springs. _________________ Ms Hoover, I glued my head to my shoulder.
3BT Baja build page
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=417564&highlight=3bt+baja |
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Mal evolent Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2009 Posts: 2912 Location: San Antonio, Nuevo Mexico
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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:47 am Post subject: |
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[quote]Are they the same as a bug steering box? If not, which is better? Whats the difference?
Quote: |
Are they the same as a bug steering box? If not, which is better? Whats the difference? |
see the Thing Shop web page. PN starts with 113. Type 1, Beetle.
Things were based on Kharman Ghia pans. essentially a Beetle pan with wider floorboards at the pedals. _________________ 73 Beetle Baja, Ghia front brakes, Type 3 rear brakes, 2220 ( 94 X 80 ), Weber Progressive, Bosch SVDA, '97 Mustang seats
Baja Bugs for Volkswagen Virgins: Index |
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sloboatnova Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2009 Posts: 989 Location: Broken Arrow, Ok
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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:48 am Post subject: |
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Excelent. I have a nearly new TRW box already.
I think I want to also convert to hiem joints while I'm at it. I'm undecided if I want to drill out the taper and use bolts, or if I should use the tapered bolt with the shoulder that accepts the hiem joints. My concern is that if I drill out the tie rod hole, the surrounding area will be thin, therefore needing re-inforcement. Not that that is a big deal, just more work.
I also noticed that the shock stud on the lower control arm had some damage from where they had to cut the shock sleeve off. Is replacing this feasable and are parts available? I haven't seen this item anywhere. _________________ Ms Hoover, I glued my head to my shoulder.
3BT Baja build page
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=417564&highlight=3bt+baja
Last edited by sloboatnova on Fri Oct 24, 2014 5:21 am; edited 1 time in total |
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oldschool5er Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2007 Posts: 804 Location: Ohio
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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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Brian: As for the steering boxes there is no difference to the T-1. Even with proper pitman arm shimming, heavy duty top, side support etc.etc. and race prep they did not last a Baja race. We used heavy duty wright place tie rods which did not fail but could have caused the box to take the brunt. We carried a spare box on the other side of the beam and had to use it during a couple Baja races. King Dave of class 11 fame used to race against us and he mentioned they did not have any failures so maybe it was random. In racing you would hit something hard enough to bend a centerline rim and that was transmitted to the box. At speed over 500k or 1000k miles you are bound to tag something no matter how good of a driver you are sometime so maybe it was just our time, we still won but the worm and sectors even when beefed didn't last. If you are not racing well maybe they last. King Dave has been racing much longer then me and I respect his abilities but he has had better luck then I have with modified stock boxes in 5/1600 Lol. Maybe the class 11 guys bend their tie rods before the box lets go, probably is a fail safe and they just bend them back. Once I went to a rack I never looked back.
As For drilling out the tie rod holes for Heim. We ran International tie rod ends which are drilled and reamed taper with no issues. I believe the Heim adaptors are made for that taper so I believe they will hold up since the International/Ford type held up in a drilled and reamed hole. This stuff is all vintage now but would work recreational. Believe me you would have to beat that front end to death, we were not racing like we were street Baja's back then on graded roads Lol the Baja 1000 was ever bit as rough as now in most areas...same thing deep silt, rocks, whoops, everything. Modern tech has has upped the avg. speeds quite a bit more and helped out reliability in limited suspension classes immensely. Just my opinions guys but I am assuming it is recreational Baja's so you don't have to build it like your racing it if you are on a budget. I still have both a Vintage and Modern Baja. |
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oldschool5er Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2007 Posts: 804 Location: Ohio
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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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sloboatnova wrote: |
Excelent. I have a nearly new TRD box already.
I think I want to also convert to hiem joints while I'm at it. I'm undecided if I want to drill out the taper and use bolts, or if I should use the tapered bolt with the shoulder that accepts the hiem joints. My concern is that if I drill out the tie rod hole, the surrounding area will be thin, therefore needing re-inforcement. Not that that is a big deal, just more work.
I also noticed that the shock stud on the lower control arm had some damage from where they had to cut the shock sleeve off. Is replacing this feasable and are parts available? I haven't seen this item anywhere. |
The Thing shock spuds are larger diameter then T-1 even though they are replaceable not sure if they are available. The thing Shop might be able to answer that |
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dirtkeeper Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2008 Posts: 3200 Location: Left of everywhere
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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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sloboatnova wrote: |
Those CNC brackets look awesome.
The beam I got has a steering box attached. I haven't looked at it much. Are they the same as a bug steering box? If not, which is better? Whats the difference?
As for the torsion springs, I'm going to try using bug springs to avoid buying them. If they don't work out, thats easy enough to replace later. I would imagine things are heavier hence the need for heavier springs. |
worked for me
http://www.socalautoparts.com/product_info.php/ind...es-p-12898
When i did mine i compared the thing box too the "stock" replacement one from TRW that i had already had. It is really hard to tell from the picture but the Thing one seemed to be more robust looking and feeling and i ended up using that one instead. I welded the bottom bracket to the beam.... i think it already has come in useful . after a couple trips out my steering box bolts came loose. they had been torqued and the metal lock bent over.??? but the still had loosened up... the welded bottom bracket kept the box in place.
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