How to fix a sticky starter FAQ

[SGKent]

I would like to add how to use a volt meter to this thread for those who don't understand it or are intimidated by it.

Voltage is like air pressure. Pretend you have a tire full of air. It isn't going anywhere unless you release the pressure or add some. If you put a tire pressure gauge on it, it tells you the DIFFERENCE between the pressure inside the tire and the pressure outside the tire. Voltage is the same. It is the DIFFERENCE between the electrical pressure between two points. When we say it is a 12V battery, it means there is 12V electrical pressure between the two battery posts.

Amperage is like the amount of air that is flowing thru a hose. If one has the valve closed on an air nozzle no air is coming out even though there may be 90 PSI in the compressor tank. If a small nozzle is used when the valve is opened the air in the tank may last a long time. If a large nozzle is used, the air in the tank may drain of air quickly because there is a large flow. Amperage is the way we measure how much electricity is flowing just like we can measure an air compressor in CFM (cubic feet per minute). The valve that releases the air is like an electrical switch. On - Off.

Most volt meters can also measure amperage however the starter circuit pulls so much electricity that most meters cannot measure it.

So - here is our inexpensive HF voltmeter.

There are several scales. The only one we are interested in is the one that says DCV. Direct Current Volts is what that means. The battery is a direct current device. (An alternator internally is a alternating current device - AC).

On the DCV scale there are numbers. Those are max voltage that scale will read. We want to measure 12V so we will use the 20V scale.

First we put the black wire on the negative POST of the battery and the red wire on the positive POST of the battery. It should read between 11 and 12.5V with the car off.

Next we measure between the battery connectors. The voltage should be exactly the same. If not we have a restriction which is caused by corrosion. We can also measure between the frame or motor and the positive terminal. The voltage should be about the same but a tiny bit less. Kinda like the air in an air hose loses pressure the farther it goes.

Now we need help from one of our friends. Making sure our long hair, shirt sleeves, jewelry is totally out of the way, we measure between battery posts again while our friend turns the key to on and turns on the headlights. The voltage will drop a little but not too much. The more it drops the weaker the battery is. If it reads 8 or 9 the battery is bad or needs charging. 10 to 11 is probably bad or discharged too. Now we turn the lights off and have our friend turn the key all the way to start. If the starter doesn't turn or turns slowly and the voltage stays around 11 then the battery is good. If the voltage falls way down say 8,9,10 etc then the battery is probably bad or discharged. Lets guess the voltage is between 11 and 12V. OK next step.

We do the same between battery cable connectors. They should give exactly the same results. If not then there is a dirty corroded connector.

Now we do the test between the 12V positive POST and the engine and/or frame ground. Should be about the same. If not then the ground strap(s) have corrosion and both need to be cleaned. Let's say it was about the same.

Now we go under the bus, put the 12 V plus lead (red) on the big stud coming from the battery to the starter, and the black one on the frame or engine. We know the engine ground is good because we just tested it in the last test. We also know that the positive battery cable connector is good because we tested that too already but we don't know if the cable is good internally. With the red on the stud and the black on frame ground we test again with our friend turning the key. Voltages should be about the same. If they drop a huge amount it is time to replace the big cable from the battery. Let;'s say it showed a drop to about 11V and the starter turned really slowly. That means that the starter is taking so much amperage that the voltage dropped, and 11V is plenty to turn the starter so something is bad in the starter. Start by replacing the bushing because if the starter is binding it will pull lots of amperage and turn slowly.

Let's say the voltage dropped a tiny bit, maybe to 11.5 but nothing happened. The drop probably means the solenoid tried to move but it is stuck. The next test if this was the case would be to put the black on frame or engine ground and the red on the spade lug with the starter switch wire attached. When the key is turned is it about 11.5 - 12V? Yes then the solenoid is bad or needs to be cleaned. Is it 5 to 9 here but 12 on the big stud? That means the switch or wire to the front has corrosion in it and is restricting the voltage to the solenoid.

So, now we are at the point where we know everything is good - 12V to the stud, 12V to the spade lug and the starter doesn't start. It is the solenoid.

We just saved $120 worth of paying someone to check our starter - AND we know what the results were - there is no chance they are lying to us about them so they can make some extra money today.

This thread also deals prior with how to repair or replace the solenoid. Do yourself a favor. Before you removed the starter remove one of the battery connectors and set it aside.

Note: unless you have an automatic trans type starter with the frame on the end to support the starter armature, you cannot test the starter out of the car or you may ruin it.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[airschooled]

Thanks for the excellent technical write up. It's handy having posts like this to link to when we get asked, I dunno, tomorrow!
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[Happyfolk]

These solenoid cleaning & lube instructions came in handy this week. We were on vacation and after a long stretch stopped at a store to pick up some supplies. Tried to start her up to get back on our way and got nothing but a short whirring sound. I knew my battery was good so I shorted the contacts on the solenoid with a wrench, heard it spin, then turned the key again and it started right up. This issue happened a couple more times, all after longer stretches when everything, including the starter, had gotten good and hot. The outside temp was around 90*. The dark brown resinous buildup on the solenoid plunger must melt when it gets hot enough, then when it cools it glues the solenoid stuck.

When I got home I removed the starter and cleaned and lubed the solenoid plunger per SGKent's instructions. The WD40 easily dissolves the brown buildup on the plunger. I kept spraying, working the plunger, and wiping it off until it stayed clear with no brown streaks. Then I used white lithium spray grease with PTFE with a straw in the nozzle to lube it up good.

Also used the opportunity to clean all of the electrical connections. The whole job took about an hour and a half.

So far so good and the starter sounds stronger than ever.

Thanks SGKent for the write-up!
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'79 Westfalia Deluxe Campmobile, 2.0L CA FI, Mexico Beige

[SGKent]

[Ghiaologist]

Thanks for your terrific write up. I'm new to starters so its hard to wrap my brain around all of this. Plus, if your experience could point me in the right direction based on whats happening, I would be most grateful.

My '63 ghia has been having starting issues for a few months. If its sat for a couple of days, it has taken as many as ten turns of the key until it fires up. What was happening is that when you turn the key you would hear a clicking sound from the back, and the red and yellow indicatior lights on the speedometer would dim considerably.

Now it wont start at all. I turned the key ten times or more, which caused the usual click and the indicator lights to dim, now when im turning the key, no clicking at all but the red and yellow lights still dim. What might be causing these symptoms?

So far I have wiggled on the wires on the ignition switch ( its only a year or two old anyway) and tapped on the starter with a broom handle. Still nothing. What would you try next?

Thanks,

Bruce
_________________
1963 Ghia convertible since 1977

I love Ghias! The look of them, the taste, the schmell!
- Johan Van der Schmut

[Wildthings]

[Tom Powell]

[Tcash]

[aeromech]

Guys, i know I'll be castigated for this but I thought since this thread was here, well....

A couple months ago I installed my very second hot start relay into a 1969 bus that was having trouble cranking and after trying all the normal fixes I just did the relay to be done with it for good.

The bus was back this past week for a brake problem (hard pull to the left) and so I had a chance to do a couple test drives. I have to say I was simply amazed at how quickly it starts up. I'm talking very first rotation and it fires right up. Now this isn't a new engine at all.

So from my recent experience all I can tell you is what I see and what I see is really nice.
_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound

[Tom Powell]

My only concern would be the choice of wire colors.

On the other hand, VW did use black for the battery positive to starter cable.
I changed mine to 2g red.

Aloha
nitpicking tp

[aeromech]

Beggars can't be choosers Tom. I try to use the correct colors when I can but sometimes I just have to use what's on hand. Earlier this summer I made a purchase from a guy who had a business rewiring boats. I was able to score some very top quality "tinned" wire from the fellow.
_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound

[Tom Powell]

[aeromech]

Donations are always graciously accepted Tom. Just don't stand me up this time
_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound

[Tcash]

That Pos cable looks like it has corrosion behind the ring terminal. I have ran across cables where the corrosion works its way up the cable and it looses its conductivity.

Tom bring him one of these.

[aeromech]

I've seen that kind of corrosion too Tim. It had been previously done and poorly. Seems to work well for now though.
_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound

[skills@eurocarsplus]

G~

that will teach you to be helpful...sheesh...
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[aeromech]

It's cool Don. I worked in the airlines for 19 years so I have s pretty thick skin. You wouldn't believe some of the assholes I worked with. One guy, who was from Boston, I asked him why he liked to stir the shit so much. His answer was because it was fun. He is one of two guys that I still truly hate to this day.
_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound

[Tom Powell]

[Tcash]

Not trying to be an asshole. Just trying to help.
I have on occasion used a marker or a piece of tape to change a wire to black.
That's all
Tcash

[aeromech]

I never thought you were being anything more than helpful Tim. Like always.
_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound