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Alternatives to BN-4 heater for a US spec 1973 Thing
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ente_kaefer
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:02 pm    Post subject: Alternatives to BN-4 heater for a US spec 1973 Thing Reply with quote

One of the previous owners of my US spec 1973 Thing did a very good job when they removed the BN-4 gas heater system from my vehicle, it appears the only items remaining are the windscreen defrost bits.

I've been searching for a replacement, complete, BN-4 gas heater system for the vehicle, it has been a challenge . . .

If I am able to locate a complete BN-4 system, assuming all of the bits work, over time, it will be a challenge to replace any items that may fail.

I have been looking for alternatives to the BN-4, and it appears that the 'best bet' in terms of being able to locate replacement bits is to go with either a Eberspächer or Webasto diesel cab heater, as used in diesel tractor trailer trucks.

In principle, the diesel cab heaters work the same as the BN-4, the primary difference being the fuel source.

I have narrowed my choices down to two diesel cab heaters, the Eberspächer Airtronic D2 or the Webasto AirTop 2000. Both operate, in principle, the same as the Eberspächer BN-4.

It appears that based on the dimensions of both units that they should fit under the front hood of my Thing. I would have to perform a 'field expedient measure' to route the heat to the windshield as well as interior. In terms of hook up of either units, it would be similar to the BN-4. I would mount the device control for the unit to the dash panel to the right of the speedometer. The wiring to the battery I could route along the right side of the car. I would need to determine how to route the exhaust from the unit. As for the diesel fuel tank, it appears I could mount it in the front of the vehicle where the side curtains are stored.

I have searched TheSamba forums to see if anyone has installed a diesel cab heater into a Thing with no results. The results returned are for folks who have installed them into diesel Vanagons.

So, before I spend the bread on a diesel cab heater and all related bits . . .

- Has anyone attempted to install a diesel cab heater into their Thing?
- If so, what steps were taken to install the diesel cab heater?

Once I have the time to finish the brake work on my vehicle, I intend for it to be my daily driver. With winter approaching, it would be nice to have heat in it . . .

If not, well, I guess I will have to re-enact what it was like it was for the cars 'Daddy' in Eastern Europe between the winters of 1941 to 1945 . . .
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iltis74
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a gas heater with a few odds and ends in a box somewhere, I couldn't tell you why as I have a '74. If you are interested I could dig it out. It's been around for years, and I've thought about using it myself as I am going Type 4 and possibly giving up the heater boxes, but I think in the end if I go gas heater I'd much prefer something modern.

Anyhow, other than just being interested myself in what you do here, and how you do it, I've a few other thoughts.

Have you considered using heater boxes? It would be an exhaust and ductwork, but it sounds like you're already spending money and fabbing ducts.

Why diesel? I am not very familiar with current cab heaters but was under the impression most could be had in a gas version, though I'm sure not many are sold. Have you looked into a gas model and decided against it, or just not thought of it? It would be a lot simpler at the gas station.
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analogmax
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

this one has been on craigslist for a while

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/pts/4669771120.html
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Solomon Grundy
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like these heater ideas but I am wondering why you chose diesel heaters?

My old heater works half the time and I have another one for spare parts. TTS has indicated that Shawn at Shamrock Racing in New Mexico can rebuild, fix and test the old BN4 heaters. Has anyone used these folks?
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mondshine
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bill-
The Airtronic B2 or B5 run on gasoline (benzin), while the D series run on diesel.
The B's are hard to find in the US, but they are vastly superior to the old BN2's and BN4's. They are also very expensive.

The Airtronic:

Link


Your best bet would be to find a good, working BN4 from a Thing (rather than from a Bus) which includes the duct-work, controls, etc. That would be a direct fit, with no modifications or fabrication.

Re: European winters of '41-'45, do you own the U.S. Army Operation and Repair Manual for Kubelwagen?
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Interesting read.

Good luck, Mondshine
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ente_kaefer
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mondshine wrote:
Re: European winters of '41-'45, do you own the U.S. Army Operation and Repair Manual for Kubelwagen?


Well, I do have a copy that I made one day after work not long after I started working at the National Archives in Washington, DC, oh, so, many years ago.

It appears that the US Center for Military History has it available as a PDF . . .

http://usacac.army.mil/cac2/cgsc/carl/wwIItms/TME9_803_1944.pdf
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ente_kaefer
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iltis74 wrote:

Have you considered using heater boxes? It would be an exhaust and ductwork, but it sounds like you're already spending money and fabbing ducts.

Why diesel? I am not very familiar with current cab heaters but was under the impression most could be had in a gas version, though I'm sure not many are sold. Have you looked into a gas model and decided against it, or just not thought of it? It would be a lot simpler at the gas station.


I was thinking about using heater boxes, but after reviewing the parts fiche on the K-mann CD, as well as all of the mod's that would need to be made, the diesel cab heater looked like the way to go.

As Gary mentioned, the diesel cab heaters work on the same principle as the BN-4, the difference being the fuel and about 40 plus years 'newer.'
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ente_kaefer
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It took some time, but I was able to locate a used Espar Airtronic D2 diesel cab heater here in St. Louis. I will be picking up on Friday the unit, electric fuel pump, and associated wiring. The unit does not have a console switch, however, it should not be too difficult to locate one.

Here's some more information on the unit . . . http://www.espar.com/fileadmin/data/countrysites/EB_Kanada/pdf/Airtronic_D2-D4-D5_Spec_sheet.pdf
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Bashr52
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My only concern with running a diesel heater would be the fact I would have to have 2 fuel tanks in the car now for 2 different fuels.....
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GI Joe
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bashr52 wrote:
My only concern with running a diesel heater would be the fact I would have to have 2 fuel tanks in the car now for 2 different fuels.....


Valid point,... Time to swap in a Subaru diesel then!!
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saddlesore1
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

go with a catalytic heater. Zero Co2 emissions
http://camping.about.com/od/campinggearreviews/gr/sportcat.htm
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carsdlt
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

saddlesore1 wrote:
go with a catalytic heater. Zero Co2 emissions
http://camping.about.com/od/campinggearreviews/gr/sportcat.htm


X2
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NOVA Airhead
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you looked at this? It looks like he may have a BN4 heater for a Thing:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1691142
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citroen
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did not have a gas heater in my 73 so I just added the 74 heater boxes drilled 2 holes in the rear for the heater tubes added a bus heater blower fan a 74 heater floor tube and installed heater cables you don't have to install the cables you can wire the boxes open and you can just let the tubes lay on the floor. I have drove in 20 degree weather and drove in 4 winters I drive this thing everyday even in the winter and stay comfortable. I checked the temp coming out of the vent yesterday and it was 176 degrees hot enough for me
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Last edited by citroen on Mon Nov 03, 2014 6:06 am; edited 1 time in total
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Solomon Grundy
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps one of these gas units might be an option.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzWv0FMAZs2ycUwyT20xNzBuRjVPdkNlSDZ6VWZkcXh2VFVn/view?usp=sharing

http://youtu.be/ibdnP4v05SA

http://www.espar.com/fileadmin/data/countrysites/EB_Kanada/pdf/B1LC_Spec_Sheet.pdf
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| _______
| |_______| '73 Thing "481"
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Captain Spalding
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A 12 volt electric heater might be another option to consider.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

http://dcthermal.com There are several options for ducting and ducts.

To do the job right, if you have a 70 amp alternator (like the Bosch style) you could mount a second battery under the driver side rear seat and include an RV-style battery isolator to make sure that running the heater doesn't leave you stranded. Even with all the goodies it would cost half as much and install much more easily than a modern gas or diesel heater.
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germanbilly
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This looks like a good deal to me, might check it out and you will have the orginal unit.
GB
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1713788
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citroen
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is the temp of the heat coming out the vent in the front on my 73 thing with 74 heater boxes and with a bus blower . I have this heat all the time at idle or full running . It was 20 degrees outside when I took this
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GI Joe
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dennis,
Please share pics of how you ducted the fan into the heater boxes... does this go in Place of the ducting from the engine fan shroud, or in conjunction With???

168* blowing at Idle at the Farthest point from the engine is Awesome!!
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citroen
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

that temp was taken at idle here is a couple of pictures I have drove this Thing for 4 winters so far
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