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modelmakerinc Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2010 Posts: 158 Location: outh Florida
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:19 am Post subject: differences thing to type one suspension , trans, ect |
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Hey guys I want to build a raised type 1 and am looking at buying a thing for parts, is there differences in the thing trans, output shafts, cv-s, rear suspension, trailing arms. that I need to consider.
I know the front beam is interchangeable which will give me my lift but the rear suspension I am not sure of. any help is appreciated. thanks |
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h2operator Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2012 Posts: 13 Location: Bryson City NC
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:16 am Post subject: |
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This info would be helpful for me also! Seems like a good topic for a " Sticky"! _________________ 73 Thing
07 Jetta TDI
DRZ 400s |
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Shoyrtt Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2010 Posts: 1007 Location: Redlands, CA
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:11 am Post subject: |
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The rear suspension on a Thing will not give you any lift over a Type 1. The trans (gearing and nose cone), CVs (larger) and drums (wider and wide 5 pattern) are different than a Type 1.
Here is a picture of my kid's Baja bug. It has a Thing trans, axles, drums and engine. We used the stock Type 1 arms and boxed them in for strength.
If you are looking to raise the rear, I would go with a set of Plates from Atomwerks.
http://atomwerk.org/ |
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modelmakerinc Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2010 Posts: 158 Location: outh Florida
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you Shoyrtt, Why did you use thing parts? only for the wider drums? or because the larger CVS are stronger and have more deflection?
explain the benefit please?
And if the thing is about 3" higher in front than a beetle, How is the rear raised, is it only the index of the torsion bars, and the travel stops surely must be different orientation to the spring plates?
this is where I don't comprehend the rear of a thing comparitvey |
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Shoyrtt Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2010 Posts: 1007 Location: Redlands, CA
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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modelmakerinc wrote: |
Thank you Shoyrtt, Why did you use thing parts? only for the wider drums? or because the larger CVS are stronger and have more deflection?
explain the benefit please?
And if the thing is about 3" higher in front than a beetle, How is the rear raised, is it only the index of the torsion bars, and the travel stops surely must be different orientation to the spring plates?
this is where I don't comprehend the rear of a thing comparitvey |
I used the Thing parts for several reasons. First, I had them on hand after switching to a Type 1 trans and disc brakes on my lowered 74 Thing. We are running 31" tires on the Baja, so the lower gearing is better with the Thing gearbox. The wider drums also give it a wider stance to match the wider front beam making the car more stable. And the Thing CVs are slightly stronger than Type 1s. It also runs the Thing stub axles which might be a tad bit stronger than Type 1s.
I do believe the rear lift on an IFS Thing (remember early 181s ran swing axles and type 2 reduction boxes) were achieved by turning the torsion bars. The bump stops on a Thing are different than on a type 1. On a lowered Thing you either have to notch the spring plates, cut the bump stops or buy a set of Atomwerks plates to lower it. On a type 1, I don't believe the bump stops are such an issue. So in other words (sorry I don't have a picture) I believe the Thing bump stops are different than Type 1s.
Another thing to consider is with a stock height Thing, the front is slightly higher than the rear. Now I realize that we are talking about a 40+ year old car, but my 73 has a totally stock suspension that has never been touched. Father time, weight and age may caused the rear to sag a bit, but the front is clearly higher than the rear.
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Ron Domeck Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2007 Posts: 1466 Location: louisville Ky
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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I have had buggy guys buy Thing rear torsion assy's because they said it would raise the buggies about 2-3 in. more that using beetle units. |
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Shoyrtt Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2010 Posts: 1007 Location: Redlands, CA
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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Ron Domeck wrote: |
I have had buggy guys buy Thing rear torsion assy's because they said it would raise the buggies about 2-3 in. more that using beetle units. |
I didn't know that. I wonder what is different?
Modelmakerinc, how much are you buying the "Thing for parts" for? I wondering if you are money ahead by picking up a set of lifted front spindals and raised spring plates over buying a parts car? |
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citroen Samba Member
Joined: February 28, 2010 Posts: 1578 Location: louisville ky
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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Thing torsion assembly also has a bar welded across the torsion tube for more strength. |
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modelmakerinc Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2010 Posts: 158 Location: outh Florida
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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Shoyrtt, That is exactly why I am inquiring. I can get a rolling shell for $500. but if the rear suspension is basically the same as the type 1 then I will need the trans from the thing also. |
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Shoyrtt Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2010 Posts: 1007 Location: Redlands, CA
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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modelmakerinc wrote: |
Shoyrtt, That is exactly why I am inquiring. I can get a rolling shell for $500. but if the rear suspension is basically the same as the type 1 then I will need the trans from the thing also. |
I'm guessing you could go either way then. The 3" Tweed lifted spindals from Dan's run around $250 ($30 more if you want to run discs) http://www.dansperformanceparts.com/buggy/susp/buggysusp%20front.htm and the Atomwerks plates are around $200. Shipping and tax if any and your at $500.
You don't need the trans from the Thing. Run a Type 1 trans, CVs, axles and stubs. I'm guessing on your roller car, the Thing stub axles will be on it. Swap them out for Type 1 stubs. Use the Thing beam and torsions to get your 2-3" lift.
Costs seem to be about the same. The labor time on the Thing swap is probably a little more. But with the Thing swap you get the wide rear drums and wide 5 lug pattern, which is probably better. Again, you can go either way on this. |
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citroen Samba Member
Joined: February 28, 2010 Posts: 1578 Location: louisville ky
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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:44 am Post subject: |
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The main thing you should be asking is why would you cut up a Thing worth a few thousand when you could cut up a type 1 worth a few hundred. |
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strelnik Samba Member
Joined: October 01, 2010 Posts: 352 Location: Michigan
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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:06 am Post subject: Re: differences thing to type one suspension , trans, ect |
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modelmakerinc wrote: |
Hey guys I want to build a raised type 1 and am looking at buying a thing for parts, is there differences in the thing trans, output shafts, cv-s, rear suspension, trailing arms. that I need to consider.
I know the front beam is interchangeable which will give me my lift but the rear suspension I am not sure of. any help is appreciated. thanks |
If you buy a Thing for parts, I would like to buy the body and chssis from you, since you would not be using it.
This is a serious offer. _________________ L'audace! L'audace! Toujours l'audace! |
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modelmakerinc Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2010 Posts: 158 Location: outh Florida
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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:16 am Post subject: |
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We have a deal, I am in 33470 zip, Ill be fine with $250 for the thing shell, no suspension no body parts, it is just a chassis (pan) and exterior sheetmetal. I will attach it to rolling dolly for you.
you will have to figure out how to get it shipped. |
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Bashr52 Samba Member
Joined: July 16, 2006 Posts: 5666 Location: On an island in VA
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Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:21 am Post subject: |
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Shoyrtt wrote: |
The rear suspension on a Thing will not give you any lift over a Type 1. The trans (gearing and nose cone), CVs (larger) and drums (wider and wide 5 pattern) are different than a Type 1.
Here is a picture of my kid's Baja bug. It has a Thing trans, axles, drums and engine. We used the stock Type 1 arms and boxed them in for strength.
If you are looking to raise the rear, I would go with a set of Plates from Atomwerks.
http://atomwerk.org/ |
Looks like you need to re-index those rear spring plates to get rid of that negative camber, and gain some ground clearance back. |
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h2operator Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2012 Posts: 13 Location: Bryson City NC
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Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 7:32 am Post subject: |
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FYI, According to the Tweeds site yesterday , the Thing lifting spindles are discontinued! _________________ 73 Thing
07 Jetta TDI
DRZ 400s |
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Shoyrtt Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2010 Posts: 1007 Location: Redlands, CA
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Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:44 am Post subject: |
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Bashr52 wrote: |
Looks like you need to re-index those rear spring plates to get rid of that negative camber, and gain some ground clearance back. |
The picture is from probably a year ago but it was the only one I could find showing the rear. Torsions were reset and it now sports a set of 2.5 Fox bypass shocks. |
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