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356 Bent window - 59 or 51?
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NOSeurope
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 1:11 am    Post subject: 356 Bent window - 59 or 51? Reply with quote

Hi all,
Have tried to get pics of the front and rear of this car but haven't managed.
Don't know, but i get this gut feeling that its a bit fishy (corrected my words).
Usually if the seller wants to sell he/she would help and get some decent pics.
Also it is advertised on the Samba as a 59 356 but looks like a 52 to me.
Chassis number 106640
I think it is more likely to be 10664 (without the last digit)

LINK TO CAR:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1686121

Let me know if you know any thing
Thanks Smile


Last edited by NOSeurope on Sun Sep 07, 2014 1:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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MMW
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 5:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The bent windshield & the dash would say it's a pre A, early to mid 50s. I think the change from the split windshield to the bent one was in mid 52 & used until 55.
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1959 356 coupe
Missing the original engine 72488
Update - third pc. found!
Now just need the case halves.
1965 fenderless beetle
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EverettB Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It looks like a pre-A to me too, based on the dash and windshield.
Other people may know more based on the body or other attributes.

I don't see anything to indicate this car is a scam. Part of that is based on the fact that the seller contacted me about this thread. I asked him to either respond in here or explain why he cannot get more photos for buyers.

Obviously if you are trying to buy it internationally, you will have some issues given that it has no title. The fact that is has no title does not mean anything illegal.

This sounds like a car where someone local (or at least in the USA) needs to go there in person and buy it.

The creation of this thread and pointing out this car is probably a pre-A will probably generate a lot more emails to the seller. Smile
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fcampbell356
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 10:13 am    Post subject: Porsche Reply with quote

Take a look at the steering wheel. Not Porsche (914, or VW maybe) and
look at the door panel. Strange door opening handle, VW's?

Needs confirm of vin number to really tell.

Frank
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NOSeurope
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 1:31 pm    Post subject: reply Reply with quote

EverettB wrote:
It looks like a pre-A to me too, based on the dash and windshield.
Other people may know more based on the body or other attributes.

I don't see anything to indicate this car is a scam. Part of that is based on the fact that the seller contacted me about this thread. I asked him to either respond in here or explain why he cannot get more photos for buyers.

Obviously if you are trying to buy it internationally, you will have some issues given that it has no title. The fact that is has no title does not mean anything illegal.

This sounds like a car where someone local (or at least in the USA) needs to go there in person and buy it.

The creation of this thread and pointing out this car is probably a pre-A will probably generate a lot more emails to the seller. Smile



I was basically interested in the car because its a bent window i.e. a Pre A 356
To register the car wouldn't be a problem, the main problem is, if the chassis number is the correct one for the car.
Which in this case it doesn't look like it is the right chassis number . also when i took the last digit off and checked it. It looked like a 51, and the bent window came into production in late 1952 up to 1955 ( i stand to be corrected). while a 51 would be a split window.
When asking the seller for pics. they said there wasn't enough room to get the pics of the front and the rear..... At least it looks like there is a bit of space to get a decent pic of the rear.
Anyway would be nice to see a pic of the car from the rear and from the front so one can assess the car better and get a clear indication if its a pre A or a 356A
Thanks
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Georgegera
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well as the seller of this car I'm glad you I've gotten a chance to put it up on this site but I am also getting frustrated with the people who ask for things that are already stated in the ad (Vin #----year-----even why hasn't it sold) I don't want to sound like a Dick but come on guys your supposed to be the experts in fact I put pictures and asked on the forum before I posted it up for sell ........please help me with year I wasn't a Porsche guy.........no help just how much do I want. .......I have sent the requested pictures but people just want them slightly different from each other so ask and I will do my best and as far as I know the steering wheel tail lights and various other parts are early 912.......I didn't do the mods they were done when I was 6 years old I'm going off my father in laws memory witch is like a steel trap bated with lsd
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MMW
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The seller has the car. If you don't like the way he does business move on.

If the serial number is indeed 106640 then there is some answers to be given. I own 106106 & has a production date of December 58. This car clearly has a bent windshield & the passenger side of the dash is definitely pre-A. Can't get a good look at the drivers side. This means either the serial number is typed in wrong, seller mis-read it or it has been changed at some point. Look at the door plate & then by the gas tank it will be stamped.

It is in your (sellers) best interest to get the serial number straightened out for potential buyers. If it is a pre-A it will worth more money than an A.
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Mic
1959 356 coupe
Missing the original engine 72488
Update - third pc. found!
Now just need the case halves.
1965 fenderless beetle
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NOSeurope
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 1:32 am    Post subject: Simple reply with pics Reply with quote

Georgegera wrote:
Well as the seller of this car I'm glad you I've gotten a chance to put it up on this site but I am also getting frustrated with the people who ask for things that are already stated in the ad (Vin #----year-----even why hasn't it sold) I don't want to sound like a Dick but come on guys your supposed to be the experts in fact I put pictures and asked on the forum before I posted it up for sell ........please help me with year I wasn't a Porsche guy.........no help just how much do I want. .......I have sent the requested pictures but people just want them slightly different from each other so ask and I will do my best and as far as I know the steering wheel tail lights and various other parts are early 912.......I didn't do the mods they were done when I was 6 years old I'm going off my father in laws memory witch is like a steel trap bated with lsd


I think that people ask for more information because they are interested in the car. (like when the price was 9999999 and i asked for the price and now it is 45,000 OBO it makes more sense like this and probably no one askes you for the price again)
Probably they keep on asking about the Chassis number and other pics, because the year of the car does not coincide with the bent-window pics you put on site.

I THINK THAT:
For you not to be/get frustrated all you have to do is like others do.


1. Take a pic of the Chassis number and post it here.

2. Take better pics showing the front and rear of the car. (not like the ones you sent me showing only the wheel arch, OK i said i would like to assess flaring damage but i asked for the whole front and the whole rear pics. ).

3. If you don't want people to frustrate you with messages and asking for things, you should simply give the car to a dealer and he will do the job for you.

We do message because we are interested not because we want to waist our time or your time.

Last but not least:
We all are very lucky to have a site like the samba were we learn a lot from each other through treads like this.

Attached below please find the pics the seller sent me Sad
THANKS

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James Davies
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is definitely a pre-A and the chassis number is not 106640. The door hinge plate from 106640 has been bolted on there. The "Reutter" font was different for pre-As. No big deal.

You will find the actual chassis number stamped into the metal on the front trunk area centered under the spare wheel. It might be under a rubber mat. You'll also find the last 2 digits of the chassis number on bottom inside of the dash, the driver side hinge bracket of the hood, the inner removable steel panel of each door, the inside top of the engine lid, and if the aluminum covers over the door hinges were original (which is not likely for the driver's side) on the bottom back of those too.

And it might have its original data model tag on the passenger side next to the gas tank. If it is the original one, it will also have the chassis number and year on it.

Ask for photos of these areas.

If it has its original wiper linkage, its a '54 or '55 and would have a number like 52xxx, 53xxx, or 54xxx.

Nice flared fenders. Shocked


Last edited by James Davies on Tue Sep 09, 2014 6:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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James Davies
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pictures that would help date the car if the chassis number info is still muddy:

- the knobs on the rear quarter windows. Are they shaped like a crown or a square mushroom?
- a lower photo of the engine area showing the carrier for the transmission. Is it square?
- the underside of the transmission itself. Is it ribbed or smooth?
- the brackets in front of the front tires that connect the spare tire compartment to the fender. They hold the horns.
- remove the inner door panel. The arms that raise and lower the window will have a date stamped on them.
- the passenger footwell area. Is there a bracket with 4 bolt holes under the dash?
- engine firewall. Is there a bracket or holes on the upper right side?

The squared-off outer door handles indicate the car is 1957 or earlier. If they're original.

The transmission looks like it might be the original 519. That looks like magnesium corrosion.

Some serious archeology is required on this car. Very Happy
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Alamento
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Georgegera wrote:
Well as the seller of this car I'm glad you I've gotten a chance to put it up on this site but I am also getting frustrated with the people who ask for things that are already stated in the ad (Vin #----year-----even why hasn't it sold) I don't want to sound like a Dick but come on guys your supposed to be the experts in fact I put pictures and asked on the forum before I posted it up for sell ........please help me with year I wasn't a Porsche guy.........no help just how much do I want. .......I have sent the requested pictures but people just want them slightly different from each other so ask and I will do my best and as far as I know the steering wheel tail lights and various other parts are early 912.......I didn't do the mods they were done when I was 6 years old I'm going off my father in laws memory witch is like a steel trap bated with lsd


Seller, pls understand that this car appears to be quite the Frankenstein, and at $40,000, people would like to know what type of car they are buying. Don't waste your time trying to identify the misfit parts on the car. They are all garbage to someone planning a restoration.

I think the worst case scenario is that the original chassis # (stamped on the body under the gas tank, or on the ID plate) has been modified to match the door plate (wrong chassis # for this car IMO) or removed.

Buyers: check your local vehicle import and registration laws regarding the registration of vehicles that have had their VIN or chassis # manipulated. I believe the car can be seized and destroyed.

In the pictures, the hood is clearly accessible, and now the seller knows where to look.
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Alamento
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More tips for the seller:

-Let us know if the brake and clutch pedals are square. A picture would help.

-Pop the hood and look underneath for holes for the hood handle. They're probably filled with bondo or welded. 3 close together would suggest 53 or earlier.

-Is the emergency brake lever and assembly attached to the steering column or to the dash?

- Is the fuse panel centered or to the passenger side?

- A picture of behind/underneath the dash would clear up a ton of questions. The dash doesn't need to be removed. Just lay on the floor and point the camera up.

We can solve this one pretty quick.
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2002sue
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 5:24 pm    Post subject: heads up Reply with quote

the car in mention is currently in my driveway.
I have zero interest in the car
But I am interested in helping determine what we are dealing with besides what is known

For starters. it has square pedals and the e brake is attached to the steering column.

next I will pull the door panel and look for some numbers.

I can tell you that the front pan sides are straight and clean all the way up to the fire wall.

Ill read this tread again and continue to chip away at the suggestions in hopes of identifying this 356


thanks for the help

Mark Radovan
MontereyBayBavarian
vintage BMW cars and parts
Santa Cruz,CA
tel(831)535-3710
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James Davies
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This car is a pre-A.

As I said, "You will find the actual chassis number stamped into the metal on the front trunk area centered under the spare wheel. It might be under a rubber mat."

Here's a photo of what that looks like.

http://mjemotorsport.com/images/stories/1953-pre-a-porsche-356-coupe-gallery/body/DSC06525.JPG

It's the 51xxx number stamped in the center. That's the first place to look. My guess is that the number will be 5xxxx or 11xxx. It will be 5 digits.
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Alamento
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I can say with confidence that you have this car:
Image is from the June/July '79 issue of the 356Registry Magazine. A thread has been started on the 356registry forum asking for more info. The depth of knowledge there is amazing.

http://forum.porsche356registry.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=37633


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SplitPersonality
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting car.... These pictures below showed up on fb.

The car is sold now, it would be really interesting to get the full story and correct VIN of this car. Could the last zero have been added, such that it really is 10664 ? Havign said that - the whole number and font looks wrong compared to a correct 1951...

Interesting car for sure!

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Alamento
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who knows. My guess would be that the car disappears forever, and at some point in the future an early car with new metal front/rear appears with a different body #.

It's shady, perhaps illegal, and done all the time.
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NOSeurope
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:08 pm    Post subject: Congrazz Reply with quote

Congratulation to the new owner.
You got yourself a nice car.
OK maybe the numbers are not correct but it is still a 53-55 Porsche.
I would suggest to never give up and keep on searching for the correct Vin number.
Im sure some one out there knows something.

Ehh last but not least

WHAT A GREAT SITE THIS IS A1 for thesamba.com

Thanks all
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