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Is this a restorable 914?
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VWTortuga336
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 6:31 am    Post subject: Is this a restorable 914? Reply with quote

I'm nearly done with the work on my '70 Beetle 'Vert, so now I'm on the lookout for my next project. I have some experience in the VW world, but none when it comes to a Porsche.

So, I'm looking at buying a 1976 914 in what appears to be "barn find" condition. Looks to have lots of surface rust, passenger floor pan gone under the seat and some rot in the engine compartment. And of course the battery tray is all but gone.

It does have the original transmission, which was allegedly rebuild 10k miles ago. It also has the original engine, along with another complete one (pictured). The guy I'm dealing with says he can't find the numbers off the engines though Rolling Eyes The current offer is at $600.

The mechanical/electrical/body aspects of this car don't scare me. The only thing that has me concerned is the rot in the engine compartment. Should I consider going forward with this project, or not waste my time?

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Engine Compartmen

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Rot

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1 of the "Complete" Engines

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Rough Interior

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Dash

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Hole in Passenger Side Floor
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jt912
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is quite a project. Unless you are prepared to put many times more than the finished car will be worth, I would pass. It is all fixable, but at a temendous cost. Curious how much money you think it would take to fix the rust, paint, clean up the interior and get it back on the road.
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VWTortuga336
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I will of course limit my spending on this resto, the cost is not my concern, as I will be doing the majority of the work myself. The only thing I wouldn't feel comfortable repairing is structural frame damage - of course safety is my #1 priority.

I know it will probably cost several thousand to get it back on the road, but for $600, I thought that was a good starting cost. But, only if there wasn't anything seriously wrong with it.
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

VWTortuga336 wrote:
While I will of course limit my spending on this resto, the cost is not my concern, as I will be doing the majority of the work myself. The only thing I wouldn't feel comfortable repairing is structural frame damage - of course safety is my #1 priority.

I know it will probably cost several thousand to get it back on the road, but for $600, I thought that was a good starting cost. But, only if there wasn't anything seriously wrong with it.



If you are doing your own work...welding etc....Its doable. But bear in mind....the fact that this is a Porsche has nothing to do with the cost structure really.
That being said....its nothing like working on or restoring a beetle...in several important ways.

1. There is no "pan" and there is no frame. This is a monocoque (sp) chassis. Its all one piece. That means everything is important.

2. The engine is a type 4 engine. Though one of the engines you have sitting around there may be viable, they will need to be stripped down to the last part and be cleaned and/or parts replaced and then reassembled.
Most likely one will need to be rebuilt to be reliable.
The engine alone will absorb "several thousand".

Lots of interior and body parts are available for this car...at least as many as you can find for a types 3 or ghia so I don't think the body replacement parts will run you more than a couple thousand at most...depending on what you can rebuild or what is still usable.

The chassis is just a bunch of grinding, cleaning ,rust removal and welding. If you buy or own a decent welder and are either decent or learn to weld....maybe a Thousand+ for doing all the rust work depending on what you might have to buy for replacement metal.

But if you are going to do all of that.....then do this right. Rebuild the engine and suspension. If you do all but the machine work yourself and use the best parts the engine can be done for $3000ish maybe less.

the suspension and brakes done by you the same way....about $900-1500 depending on what you want it to do.

I would say that doing this all yourself.....you can do this short of paint for about $6-7000. Ray
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thebooger
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most of the metal repair panels that you will require, can be purchased from Restoration Design - www.restoration-design.com

They also have a lot of 'How to' videos on installing the sheet metal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kMOMNhxg-A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVrmUHRfbCs

I have restored 914's that were in a lot worse shape.
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VWTortuga336
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thebooger wrote:
I have restored 914's that were in a lot worse shape.


That's really the info I was looking for. Just wondering if it's a good idea, or if I'd be throwing away $600.
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waxhead
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you start into it and then decide it is too much, you could part it out and easily get your money back. If the engine is a 2.0 liter then it is worth a few hundred bucks, even as a core.
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jt912
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's break this down further.
Car- $600
Engine- $3,000 (this could be much higher depending upon macine work and parts.
Interior- $2,000 (I am a 912/911 guy but imagine this is realistic)
Rust repair- $1,000 (having just done a 911, I think this number is low. It is all the little things that add up fast.)
Suspension and brakes- $1,500
Total investment-$8,100

Now for the rest
Paint- $3,000
Tires- $750
New seals/rubber- $1,000
Transmission- $500 (assume at minimum a new clutch. Much more if internals need work)
Misc items- $2,000 (gauges, sending units, computer brain, carb or fuel injection parts, powder coating, plating, fuel tank cleaning, head lights, horns, turn signal covers, muffler, emblems, other stuff)
Additional- $7,250
Investment Potential- $15,350

Don't get me wrong, I think these all should be saved. Even if this car were free, you are still faced with a substantial investment of both money and time.
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VWTortuga336
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks a lot for the help guys, it was very insightful. Based on everyone's input, I think I'll pass on this one and look for something that is in a little better shape to start with.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm currently restoring a 73 914 and will say that before you really make a call you should check to see if the rust has moved into the longitudinal channels, if they are somehow pretty clean, go for it, if they are rotted, it's pretty much shot.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I forgot part of my caveat. If the channels are somehow clean, you also have to ask a couple questions that affect the cost/benefit analysis. How "perfect" do you want the finished car? Are you cool with using fabricated body parts? All but about 3 of those rusted panels can be made at home with sheet metal if you don't mind losing the original looking esthetic. Buy the "scrap" pieces at a sheet metal store and bend the lips.
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DirtyCossack
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll amend this list for the "tightwad restoration"

jt912 wrote:
Let's break this down further.
Car- $600
Engine- $3,000 (this could be much higher depending upon macine work and parts. [$1000: stay with whatever size it's currently bored, crank= $200, jug set=$400, randoms=$100, used carb=$200, dizzy=$100]
Interior- $2,000 (I am a 912/911 guy but imagine this is realistic) $500 at most if you buy yourself foam and fabric at Hobby Lobby, use carpet from Lowes, dilligently watch classifieds for cheap randoms
Rust repair- $1,000 (having just done a 911, I think this number is low. It is all the little things that add up fast.) $400 if you weld and don't mind fabbing the flat pieces and not having them look original, a few of those contoured pieces will be 90% of that cost
Suspension and brakes- $1,500 I bought my complete brake setup (pads, caliper rebuild kits, every line etc with my 4 contoured body parts for $500) just saying
Total investment-$8,100 $3000ish

Now for the rest
Paint- $3,000 You paint in the garage? paint is only like $100, it's a little car. Or you could buy at the Tractor Supply Store and get it for $50. splurge for some POR 15 and stuff and you might hit $300
Tires- $750 I got mine for $350 from Discount Tire
New seals/rubber- $1,000 Is it kinda good?
Transmission- $500 (assume at minimum a new clutch. Much more if internals need work) A clutch is like $250
Misc items- $2,000 (gauges, sending units, computer brain, carb or fuel injection parts, powder coating, plating, fuel tank cleaning, head lights, horns, turn signal covers, muffler, emblems, other stuff) Who needs that stuff?
Additional- $7,250 Let's round up to $1000
Investment Potential- $15,350 $4000ish

Don't get me wrong, I think these all should be saved. Even if this car were free, you are still faced with a substantial investment of both money and time.


That number is a lot better, but just like jt912's "perfect resto" you prolly won't get your money back if your goal is profit... Nobody wants a $4000 ghettofied car, but if you want a completely personalized $4000-5000 914 it'll work.
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also a fair bit of those parts are cheaper than you list though I know you are working worst case here.

For $600.....I would go for it. I could make 2-3 times that on the wreck in selling its parts.
Ray


Last edited by raygreenwood on Mon Oct 27, 2014 9:58 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the 914s are *finally* increasing in value. Look at what nice ones -- not show cars, just nice ones -- are going for on eBay, for example.

I'd hate to see any of these parted out. They are getting more and more rare. I'd get it and, over the course of time, repair it. No reason to rush in and spend a lot of money.

As people have said, most parts are available.

http://restoration-design.com/
http://914rubber.com/
http://www.pmbperformance.com/teener.html
http://www.tangerineracing.com/products.htm

There are many others.

Good luck.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah if you have time and room, you can do it slowly and just keep eyes open for cheap parts or use WTBs here and on the 914 forums.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do it, Do it Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it cheaper to purchase a recently restored 914 than to tackle this project? Probably.

Is it more satisfying on a personal level to restore this $600 project than to purchase a turn key ready 914? Absolutely!

The journey is usually more satisfying to a car guy than the destination. Nothing is more satisfying than going to a car show and saying that you did all of the work yourself.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is some bad rot in that car, I'd pass even if it was free. all depends on how much money you want to sink into it and time. you could do better I think with many other 914 projects, maybe not in the $500 range, but if you get into the $2-4K range you might be money ahead if you don't have to deal with that extensive rust I see. I suspect the rocker under the battery tray is rotted fairly well too.

if you enjoy welding and have lots of money for parts go for it, but economically you could do much better.
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