Kevlar timing Belt 1.6l MK1

[winchin73blazinbaja]

I am looking for a Kevlar Timing Belt for my (what started out as) 1.6l Rabbit Engine (1980). Has anyone had any luck finding any kevlar timing belts. I am looking at $42 a Valve when the belt breaks (which it so kindly did) so I am willing to spend a fair amount on getting a More durable break resistant timing belt. as the belt i was using was a brand new German Belt. (if you cant trust the Germans Who can you Trust???)

otherwise what other options are you all using for a bit of added peace of mind?

[ps2375]

Only time I ever had a belt fail, was when I left it on far too long. Unless you have a heavily modified motor, valves shouldn't touch anything if the belt does break. You might as well change it more frequently.

[winchin73blazinbaja]

The intermediate pulley actually broke. Everything is being repaired free of cost to me and the motor is heavily performance based. Sitting around 170-180 hp naturally aspirated. On an 8 valve

[ps2375]

Seems like something that should be changed after every or every other race. I wouldn't even trust a Kevlar belt too far. And if the IM sprocket failed, not even a kevlar belt is immune other pieces taking it out.

[winchin73blazinbaja]

Yes I only had a Chance to get down to tearing the covers off last night to find the sprocket destroyed. I do not race I have it in my baja bug that I (normally) would be driving daily on trails and back and forth to school and work. I talked to a few of the more well known producers of kevlar timing belts and they all said that they do not produce them anyways. so I will just stick with the higher quality belts and swap them out every 10-15K miles or so.

[ps2375]

Well, from being in the watercooled world for the last forever, that seems like a very optimistic hp figure for a 1.6L 8V.
At least with it in a baja, the belt will be super easy to get to, might as well change it once a year and not worry about it. Could take all of a 1/2 hour in that vehicle, even with a beer break.

[winchin73blazinbaja]

The motor was built by Chris and jack haenlein who race pro buggy in the traxxas torc series they have been in the Volkswagen scene for decades. The motor is pushing a minimum of 170 hp. The only stock component on it is the altenator, water pump, and timing assembly. I understand that most people swap to the 16v because it is easier to get these horsepower figures but the 16v engines also are less reliable in race application. Thus building up the 8 valve. I can get you the specs on the build if you would like to see some of the numbers I am going to be heading to Chris's house next Friday to work on the engine with him.

[ps2375]

Sure, post em up. But even a well built 2.0L 8V motor would have a hard time making those numbers. You're talking FSV numbers, who's motors would be very difficult drive in any vehicle on a daily basis on the road.

[winchin73blazinbaja]

I absolutely agree with you. This engine has well over $8k in upgrades done to it.

[ps2375]

price means little, as they are builder prices. A dyno sheet would mean more.

[winchin73blazinbaja]

That is cost of parts as they built the engines themselves and did the machine work themselves. Ithey also recieve dealer prices as they sell the parts themselves. can remember it has Alfa Romeo jugs is now at 1784 cc had wiseco flat top pistons. Large titanium valves that they use in all their race engines. It is a huge list so I only caught small amounts. I am not going to go pay for a dyno because your a skeptic. The engine was built as a race engine for professional racing it is sitting at 12.5:1 compression and apparently is built better than I anticipated considering you won't believe the horsepower coming from it. Have a nice day and keep trolling.

[stewardc]

Gates makes Kevlar belts, But I don't know about your engine.

http://pgperformance.com/ina-reinforced-kevlar-1.8t-timing-belt.html

[winchin73blazinbaja]

They were te first I checked with along with cosworth. I could not think of any others making them

[ps2375]

I'm not trolling, it's just that is a very high HP number for an 8V motor of any size. I was thinking it would first have to have a very high CR, which it seems to, and it will have to rev to the moon to make anything near that number, which also means it won't idle very well at a near civilized rpm and it won't have any sort of low-end TQ making it very difficult to drive in a traffic situation w/o lots of clutch slipping and high rev's. The titanium valves are there to allow those moon-shot rpm's and big hp number targets.

Now, if you would've said it was a 120-130hp motor, I would've said, OK, as I was building a 1.8L 8V on 10:1cr that could've been very close to that, at the crank, with mostly stock parts.

Getting to their numbers requires massive head work, high CR(which they seem to have) and a cam that has a very narrow powerband that is at the far end of the tach. I'm not saying it can't be done, as FSV motors have done it. The first week with that motor in a dd could be fun, after that, I think it will not be so much fun, as it won't be pleasant to drive slow and finding fuel(unless you plan on using e-85) will be silly. And e-85 brings it's own challenges to the table(around here it is scarce and the blend can sometime be lethal to the motor, which requires checking the blend at each fill-up).

GL

[winchin73blazinbaja]

the head has a great amount of machining done to it. the power band hits at 6k rpm truly reaching maximum HP it is a lot of clutch work at low rpms, I do not drive in traffic much at all where I live. I stop at the most 7 times on the way to work with maybe 1-4 cars maximum seen on the trip into work, (i go into work around 5-6 AM every day) on the way home only 1 day a week do i head back through town usually i head to school with at the most 6 stops along the 30 minute trip. so most of the time will be spent around 2500 rpm, I refuse to run E-85 I am currently running straight 110 but will be lowering it in increments to find the perfect blend (should be around 75-25 mix 93-110 octane which a gas station supplies on the way to school so I will be topping off twice a week.

and sorry for the rather snide previous post, it was submitted while I was rather frustratedly working on homework.

I can roughly give what it has just will need to get a full list from Chris when I am there fixing the Carnage of the Intermediate pulley Break.

[winchin73blazinbaja]

ahh yes and full advance timing was set at 8500 RPM which is where most of the life of the engine would be spent running for races that sometimes lasted up to 3 hours. (I have all new internals on my engine so it has not been abused like this) I am not one to overestimate horsepower levels as I am not one to enjoy being proven incorrect.

[ps2375]

I'd have them lower the CR to around 10:1 and put something like a TT280 cam in it, and you'd still have a motor that will make power to 7000rpm(or even a little more) but would also have some sort of low-end and not be tethered to 110 octane fuel. Just a suggestion.

[winchin73blazinbaja]

I will be lowering the CR soon but for now man does the 110 smell nice when it burns

[ps2375]

[winchin73blazinbaja]

Besides the gas station I go to has cute clerks that have to go unlock the pump for me just wait till they see my beetle :p