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Juanito84
Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2012
Posts: 2436
Location: Colorado Mountains
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 Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| Juanito84 wrote: |
| Agreed. 800ppm Phos has been the standard since ZDDP was added to engine oil and will provide enough protection for any OEM flat tappet engine built for normal driving. |
And 12,000 was once the standard warranty period too while many cars would begin having serious engine problems before they made it to 30,000 miles. At the advent of The SM rules a typical oil would have had more like 1100-1250ppm ZDDP. |
One thing that is confusing to me is the designations PPM ZDDP, PPM zinc, PPM phosphorus and PPM sulfur.
All I know is that ZDDP wasn't used in oil until the 1940's. From the late 1950's until the mid 1970's the level of ZDDP in most engine oils put phosphorus levels to around 800PPM. But the 70's marked the start of different kinds of lifters like finger lifters that were having wear problems initially. So oil manufacturers upped the ZDDP level to try to compensate for the wear which resulted in around 1,000PPM of phosphorus from the late 70's until the mid 80's.
In 1993 GF-1 or API SH oil came out. This mandated that all10W-30 and thinner oil limit the phosphorus content to 1,200PPM although the majority of street oils were already between 800 and 1,000PPM, with the majority around 800PPM.
In 1996 the GF-2 or API SJ standard limited phos in 10W-30 and thinner to 1,000PPM although most oils continued to have around 800PPM.
In 2002 the GF-3 or API SL standard also limited phos in 10W-30 and thinner to 1,000PPM while most oils still sat around 800PPM with a few dipping down to 600PPM to 800PPM.
Then in 2005 the new GF-4 or API SM standard (followed by the GF-5 or API SN standard in 2011) limited phosphorus to between 600 to 800PPM in all 10W-30 and thinner oils.
The interesting thing is that there are still a lot of engines being produced with flat tappets that do just fine with SM and SN levels of ZDDP. The key is high quality lifter and cam materials and low pressure springs. An OEM VW AC engine does fine with 800PPM phosphorus. But put on cheap lifters and cam and/or heavy duty valve springs then you better put in more ZDDP.
_________________
If a water cooled engine cools its water with air, isn't it just an overcomplicated air cooled engine? |
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udidwht
Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2005
Posts: 3779
Location: Seattle, WA./ HB, Ca./ Shizuoka, Japan
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| Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 12:13 am Post subject: |
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"Then in 2005 the new GF-4 or API SM standard (followed by the GF-5 or API SN standard in 2011) limited phosphorus to between 600 to 800PPM in all 10W-30 and thinner oils."
Not all...it depends on how the oil is labeled.
_________________
1972 Westy Hardtop/Type-4 2056cc
96mm Biral AA P/C's~7.8:1CR
Headflow Masters New AMC 42x36mm heads w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
73 Web Cam w/Web solids
Dual 40mm IDF Webers - LM-2 - 47.5 idles/125 mains/190 air corr./F11 tubes/28mm Vents - Float height 10.45mm/Drop 32mm
Bosch SVDA w/Pertronix module (7.5 initial 28 total @ 3400rpm)
Bosch W8CC plugs
Pertronix Flamethrower 40K coil
S&S 4-1 w/Walker QP 17862
3 rib 002 Trans
185R14 Hankook tires |
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Juanito84
Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2012
Posts: 2436
Location: Colorado Mountains
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| Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 7:26 am Post subject: |
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| udidwht wrote: |
"Then in 2005 the new GF-4 or API SM standard (followed by the GF-5 or API SN standard in 2011) limited phosphorus to between 600 to 800PPM in all 10W-30 and thinner oils."
Not all...it depends on how the oil is labeled. |
Here we go again. 
Do you have any legitimate examples? There are many oils labeled "meets or exceeds SN rating" but are not SN oils. A true SN oil will have an "API CERTIFIED" lable on the bottle. It's a loop hole oil manufacturers use. Usually if you continue reading such oils say "meets or exceeds SN rating for engine wear" or something similar. They can put that on the bottle because it does protect the engine from wear as good as an SN oil. However, it most likely doesn't meet API SN standards in protecting catalytic converters.
If you truely believe all oils marked "meets or exceeds SN rating" are truely SN oils then use some in a 2011 or newer car that calls for API SN rated oil and see if your warenty will cover the damaged cat once it clogs up with phosphorus in a couple of years.
_________________
If a water cooled engine cools its water with air, isn't it just an overcomplicated air cooled engine? |
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udidwht
Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2005
Posts: 3779
Location: Seattle, WA./ HB, Ca./ Shizuoka, Japan
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| Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 7:59 am Post subject: |
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| Juanito84 wrote: |
| udidwht wrote: |
"Then in 2005 the new GF-4 or API SM standard (followed by the GF-5 or API SN standard in 2011) limited phosphorus to between 600 to 800PPM in all 10W-30 and thinner oils."
Not all...it depends on how the oil is labeled. |
Here we go again.
Do you have any legitimate examples? There are many oils labeled "meets or exceeds SN rating" but are not SN oils. A true SN oil will have an "API CERTIFIED" lable on the bottle. It's a loop hole oil manufacturers use. Usually if you continue reading such oils say "meets or exceeds SN rating for engine wear" or something similar. They can put that on the bottle because it does protect the engine from wear as good as an SN oil. However, it most likely doesn't meet API SN standards in protecting catalytic converters.
If you truely believe all oils marked "meets or exceeds SN rating" are truely SN oils then use some in a 2011 or newer car that calls for API SN rated oil and see if your warenty will cover the damaged cat once it clogs up with phosphorus in a couple of years. |
http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/vr1_racing.pdf
Scroll down to where it says ---Test 10W-30 -- 20W-50 below it both are .14 & .13 for ZDDP levels.
SH & CD/CF are obsolete. The bottle I have in front of me also shows SN rated. One running an oil with ZDDP levels above what's now recommended would take much longer than 2 years to have any ill effect on your cat. The first several years after buying my Highlander had no ill effects from using the higher level of ZDDP prior to it's mandated drop in PPM.
From Valvoline site:
What solutions does Valvoline offer to the zinc issue?
Valvoline offers two solutions to the zinc issue:
Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil: Contains 75% higher zinc than SM motor oil with a balanced additive package designed to work in both racing and street-legal applications. This product will protect older style push-rod and flat tappet engines. Valvoline provides this product in both multi and mono viscosity grades: 20w50, straight 50, 10w30, straight 30, straight 40, and straight 60.
_________________
1972 Westy Hardtop/Type-4 2056cc
96mm Biral AA P/C's~7.8:1CR
Headflow Masters New AMC 42x36mm heads w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
73 Web Cam w/Web solids
Dual 40mm IDF Webers - LM-2 - 47.5 idles/125 mains/190 air corr./F11 tubes/28mm Vents - Float height 10.45mm/Drop 32mm
Bosch SVDA w/Pertronix module (7.5 initial 28 total @ 3400rpm)
Bosch W8CC plugs
Pertronix Flamethrower 40K coil
S&S 4-1 w/Walker QP 17862
3 rib 002 Trans
185R14 Hankook tires |
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Juanito84
Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2012
Posts: 2436
Location: Colorado Mountains
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| Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 8:29 am Post subject: |
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| udidwht wrote: |
| Juanito84 wrote: |
| udidwht wrote: |
"Then in 2005 the new GF-4 or API SM standard (followed by the GF-5 or API SN standard in 2011) limited phosphorus to between 600 to 800PPM in all 10W-30 and thinner oils."
Not all...it depends on how the oil is labeled. |
Here we go again.
Do you have any legitimate examples? There are many oils labeled "meets or exceeds SN rating" but are not SN oils. A true SN oil will have an "API CERTIFIED" lable on the bottle. It's a loop hole oil manufacturers use. Usually if you continue reading such oils say "meets or exceeds SN rating for engine wear" or something similar. They can put that on the bottle because it does protect the engine from wear as good as an SN oil. However, it most likely doesn't meet API SN standards in protecting catalytic converters.
If you truely believe all oils marked "meets or exceeds SN rating" are truely SN oils then use some in a 2011 or newer car that calls for API SN rated oil and see if your warenty will cover the damaged cat once it clogs up with phosphorus in a couple of years. |
http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/vr1_racing.pdf
Scroll down to where it says ---Test 10W-30 -- 20W-50 below it both are .14 & .13 for ZDDP levels.
SH & CD/CF are obsolete. The bottle I have in front of me also shows SN rated. One running an oil with ZDDP levels above what's now recommended would take much longer than 2 years to have any ill effect on your cat. The first several years after buying my Highlander had no ill effects from using the higher level of ZDDP prior to it's mandated drop in PPM.
From Valvoline site:
What solutions does Valvoline offer to the zinc issue?
Valvoline offers two solutions to the zinc issue:
Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil: Contains 75% higher zinc than SM motor oil with a balanced additive package designed to work in both racing and street-legal applications. This product will protect older style push-rod and flat tappet engines. Valvoline provides this product in both multi and mono viscosity grades: 20w50, straight 50, 10w30, straight 30, straight 40, and straight 60. |
This is exactly what I am talking about. Valvoline VR1 is not API certified. They can put SN on the bottle but since it's not certified by the American Petroleum Institute it is not a true SN oil. Period.
Read your owner's manual. Most manuals place more importance on oil being API certified than which rating it should be. With VR-1 not being API certified and therefore not at true SN oil you didn't follow the manufacturer's recommendations. Your warrenty is voided.
_________________
If a water cooled engine cools its water with air, isn't it just an overcomplicated air cooled engine? |
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udidwht
Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2005
Posts: 3779
Location: Seattle, WA./ HB, Ca./ Shizuoka, Japan
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| Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| Juanito84 wrote: |
| udidwht wrote: |
| Juanito84 wrote: |
| udidwht wrote: |
"Then in 2005 the new GF-4 or API SM standard (followed by the GF-5 or API SN standard in 2011) limited phosphorus to between 600 to 800PPM in all 10W-30 and thinner oils."
Not all...it depends on how the oil is labeled. |
Here we go again.
Do you have any legitimate examples? There are many oils labeled "meets or exceeds SN rating" but are not SN oils. A true SN oil will have an "API CERTIFIED" lable on the bottle. It's a loop hole oil manufacturers use. Usually if you continue reading such oils say "meets or exceeds SN rating for engine wear" or something similar. They can put that on the bottle because it does protect the engine from wear as good as an SN oil. However, it most likely doesn't meet API SN standards in protecting catalytic converters.
If you truely believe all oils marked "meets or exceeds SN rating" are truely SN oils then use some in a 2011 or newer car that calls for API SN rated oil and see if your warenty will cover the damaged cat once it clogs up with phosphorus in a couple of years. |
http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/vr1_racing.pdf
Scroll down to where it says ---Test 10W-30 -- 20W-50 below it both are .14 & .13 for ZDDP levels.
SH & CD/CF are obsolete. The bottle I have in front of me also shows SN rated. One running an oil with ZDDP levels above what's now recommended would take much longer than 2 years to have any ill effect on your cat. The first several years after buying my Highlander had no ill effects from using the higher level of ZDDP prior to it's mandated drop in PPM.
From Valvoline site:
What solutions does Valvoline offer to the zinc issue?
Valvoline offers two solutions to the zinc issue:
Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil: Contains 75% higher zinc than SM motor oil with a balanced additive package designed to work in both racing and street-legal applications. This product will protect older style push-rod and flat tappet engines. Valvoline provides this product in both multi and mono viscosity grades: 20w50, straight 50, 10w30, straight 30, straight 40, and straight 60. |
This is exactly what I am talking about. Valvoline VR1 is not API certified. They can put SN on the bottle but since it's not certified by the American Petroleum Institute it is not a true SN oil. Period.
Read your owner's manual. Most manuals place more importance on oil being API certified than which rating it should be. With VR-1 not being API certified and therefore not at true SN oil you didn't follow the manufacturer's recommendations. Your warrenty is voided. |
1. My Highlander was purchased in (Nov 2002) 2003 model. Prior to the mandated drop in ZDDP. Therefore the warranty wasn't an issue.
2. My 72 VW bus warranty ran out long before an SM or SN rated oil even existed.
3. Why would you (anyone) even consider using an SN rated oil for that matter if so concerned about a labeling issue? Valvoline VR1 works no debate and has a level of ZDDP that is considered sufficient. That's really all it comes down to.
_________________
1972 Westy Hardtop/Type-4 2056cc
96mm Biral AA P/C's~7.8:1CR
Headflow Masters New AMC 42x36mm heads w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
73 Web Cam w/Web solids
Dual 40mm IDF Webers - LM-2 - 47.5 idles/125 mains/190 air corr./F11 tubes/28mm Vents - Float height 10.45mm/Drop 32mm
Bosch SVDA w/Pertronix module (7.5 initial 28 total @ 3400rpm)
Bosch W8CC plugs
Pertronix Flamethrower 40K coil
S&S 4-1 w/Walker QP 17862
3 rib 002 Trans
185R14 Hankook tires |
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Juanito84
Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2012
Posts: 2436
Location: Colorado Mountains
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| Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Juanito84 wrote: |
| Do you have any legitimate examples? |
| udidwht wrote: |
1. My Highlander was purchased in (Nov 2002) 2003 model. Prior to the mandated drop in ZDDP. Therefore the warranty wasn't an issue.
2. My 72 VW bus warranty ran out long before an SM or SN rated oil even existed.
3. Why would you (anyone) even consider using an SN rated oil for that matter if so concerned about a labeling issue? Valvoline VR1 works no debate and has a level of ZDDP that is considered sufficient. That's really all it comes down to. |
So now, what exactly are we trying to proove? I list API certified SN oil as having 600PPM to 800PPM phosphorus. You mention a non-certified SN oil as having more, which is good if your car isn't built after 2005. We both agree that API certified SN ZDDP levels are too little for our pre-2005 vehicles.
Is it just me or are we arguing on the same page? 
_________________
If a water cooled engine cools its water with air, isn't it just an overcomplicated air cooled engine? |
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udidwht
Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2005
Posts: 3779
Location: Seattle, WA./ HB, Ca./ Shizuoka, Japan
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| Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Juanito84 wrote: |
| Juanito84 wrote: |
| Do you have any legitimate examples? |
| udidwht wrote: |
1. My Highlander was purchased in (Nov 2002) 2003 model. Prior to the mandated drop in ZDDP. Therefore the warranty wasn't an issue.
2. My 72 VW bus warranty ran out long before an SM or SN rated oil even existed.
3. Why would you (anyone) even consider using an SN rated oil for that matter if so concerned about a labeling issue? Valvoline VR1 works no debate and has a level of ZDDP that is considered sufficient. That's really all it comes down to. |
So now, what exactly are we trying to proove? I list API certified SN oil as having 600PPM to 800PPM phosphorus. You mention a non-certified SN oil as having more, which is good if your car isn't built after 2005. We both agree that API certified SN ZDDP levels are too little for our pre-2005 vehicles.
Is it just me or are we arguing on the same page? |
When I purchase the Valvoline VR1 at NAPA there are times (most) where it state 'Exceeds API SM" on the back of bottle...a bottle I have now for topping off shows "Exceeds API SG/SH". I even come across bottles of it with SE/SF ratings.
Most of the time 8 outta 10 it will show/state on the back of the bottle 'Exceeds API SM'. Napa likely has quite a bit of old stock on their shelves. The store I purchase at is a distribution center hub.
_________________
1972 Westy Hardtop/Type-4 2056cc
96mm Biral AA P/C's~7.8:1CR
Headflow Masters New AMC 42x36mm heads w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
73 Web Cam w/Web solids
Dual 40mm IDF Webers - LM-2 - 47.5 idles/125 mains/190 air corr./F11 tubes/28mm Vents - Float height 10.45mm/Drop 32mm
Bosch SVDA w/Pertronix module (7.5 initial 28 total @ 3400rpm)
Bosch W8CC plugs
Pertronix Flamethrower 40K coil
S&S 4-1 w/Walker QP 17862
3 rib 002 Trans
185R14 Hankook tires |
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Juanito84
Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2012
Posts: 2436
Location: Colorado Mountains
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| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:19 am Post subject: |
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| udidwht wrote: |
| Most of the time 8 outta 10 it will show/state on the back of the bottle 'Exceeds API SM'. Napa likely has quite a bit of old stock on their shelves. The store I purchase at is a distribution center hub. |
Like I've said before, saying it 'exceeds such and such catagory' is just another way of saying it is not that catagory.
This conversation is like two performance car owners talking about which octane level to use. One guy says to never use "regular" gasoline. The second guy replies that "regular" is ok if it says it's "regular plus" since it has more octane. The first guy then frankly asserts that "regular plus" is not the same as "regular", but "regular plus" is ok. But again, the second guy boldly deffends that "regular plus" truely is "regular", but don't use "regular" gasoline that isn't "regular plus". So then the first guy gets all worked up and...
The bottom line is:
#1 Oil with less than 800PPM phosphorus is likely to do harm to our antique engines.
#2 Oils that are 10W-30 and thinner and are certified by the American Petroleum Institute as being rated as a SM or SN oil supposedly has less than 800PPM phosphorus.
#3 Many oils marked as "racing oils" that claim to meet or exceed the SN rating will have more than 800PPM of phosphorus (for some unknown reason that we cannot agree on).
_________________
If a water cooled engine cools its water with air, isn't it just an overcomplicated air cooled engine? |
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udidwht
Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2005
Posts: 3779
Location: Seattle, WA./ HB, Ca./ Shizuoka, Japan
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| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Juanito84 wrote: |
| udidwht wrote: |
| Most of the time 8 outta 10 it will show/state on the back of the bottle 'Exceeds API SM'. Napa likely has quite a bit of old stock on their shelves. The store I purchase at is a distribution center hub. |
Like I've said before, saying it 'exceeds such and such catagory' is just another way of saying it is not that catagory.
This conversation is like two performance car owners talking about which octane level to use. One guy says to never use "regular" gasoline. The second guy replies that "regular" is ok if it says it's "regular plus" since it has more octane. The first guy then frankly asserts that "regular plus" is not the same as "regular", but "regular plus" is ok. But again, the second guy boldly deffends that "regular plus" truely is "regular", but don't use "regular" gasoline that isn't "regular plus". So then the first guy gets all worked up and...
The bottom line is:
#1 Oil with less than 800PPM phosphorus is likely to do harm to our antique engines.
#2 Oils that are 10W-30 and thinner and are certified by the American Petroleum Institute as being rated as a SM or SN oil supposedly has less than 800PPM phosphorus.
#3 Many oils marked as "racing oils" that claim to meet or exceed the SN rating will have more than 800PPM of phosphorus (for some unknown reason that we cannot agree on). |
1. Possible...break in is a CRITICAL factor as is the Metallurgy between the two said parts. At the time of the lifter/cam issue/s there were serious questions/doubts raised that the flat cam/lifter issues weren't related to oil at all. I side with this belief.
2. It depends on the overall labeling of the oil. A good example would be how beer companies get around alcohol levels allowed in their product that are considered allowable for beer in certain states. Going over a certain level of alcohol meant a change in how it's labeled.
3. Except that we do "Agree' because it has been shown thru oil samples submitted by users from different forums. Proof is in the pudding.
Here's a thought...
Just because an oil isn't rated SM, doesn't mean it doesn't meet the SM standards.
_________________
1972 Westy Hardtop/Type-4 2056cc
96mm Biral AA P/C's~7.8:1CR
Headflow Masters New AMC 42x36mm heads w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
73 Web Cam w/Web solids
Dual 40mm IDF Webers - LM-2 - 47.5 idles/125 mains/190 air corr./F11 tubes/28mm Vents - Float height 10.45mm/Drop 32mm
Bosch SVDA w/Pertronix module (7.5 initial 28 total @ 3400rpm)
Bosch W8CC plugs
Pertronix Flamethrower 40K coil
S&S 4-1 w/Walker QP 17862
3 rib 002 Trans
185R14 Hankook tires
Last edited by udidwht on Wed Nov 12, 2014 2:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Danwvw
Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012
Posts: 8892
Location: Oregon Coast
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| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Anvil wrote: |
Amsoil Z-Rod 10-30, remote thermostat controlled oil cooler in airstream, 2-quart CB thinline sump, 36hp shroud, 2180cc, 9.4-1 compression, after 45-minutes of sustained 75-80 mph on I-25 and after going up Monument Hill. 75'ish ambient. |
Wonder what those gauges would read on a day like today? Last I heard it was 8 Degrees F in Denver probably around zero on Monument Hill! Probably won't doing 75-80 today! Everytime it even thinks about snowing in Denver Colorado it snows on Monument hill!
What Oil would you want in your VW Air Cooled on a day like this?
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths! |
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Wildthings
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Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50348
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| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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The manual recommends a 10w-** oil down to just below 0°F and a 5w-** below that. For myself I would choose the 5w-** oil to get easier starts.
For what it is worth my Transporter started easily this morning at 20°F with straight 30wt in the crankcase. As it will not see but a day or two of these kinds of temperature before I hit the road to the southern climes, it got changed to 15w50 synthetic and not something thinner. |
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Juanito84
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Joined: March 17, 2012
Posts: 2436
Location: Colorado Mountains
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| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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It commonly gets down bellow -30° F here. Which is why I prefer a 0W-xx, at least durring the winter.
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If a water cooled engine cools its water with air, isn't it just an overcomplicated air cooled engine? |
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Juanito84
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Joined: March 17, 2012
Posts: 2436
Location: Colorado Mountains
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| Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| tatooed_parish wrote: |
I know, I know... not another god damned oil thread..
here's the thing, I've never dealt with modern oils, my modern cars had factory recommend weights, my beetle, i've ALWAYS ran flat 30 in because I lives in California, and it worked..
I'm in Hampton Virginia now.. it's friggin cold here. I just blew the rubber o-ring off of a Wix oil filter and I'm assuming it's because it was about 35*F, I was running flat 30, and the combination of thick oil, a cold filter, and the high pressure required to move thick oil, caused the oil to pick the weakest point (the o-ring) and push through it..
Fine, I'm sold, I need multi-weight oil.
I'm going to buy a K&N HP3001 filter, but for oil, I'm unsure..
I'm thinking 5W-30. does that sound right?
let's not turn this into an oil related flame war, I'm probably going to try and get royal purple, but this isn't a brand thread either.. I just have no idea about multi-weight oils and am looking for help.. |
5W-30 sounds about right for me.
Of the two grades on multi-grade oils chose the "W" grades from how cold it gets. Choose the non-W grade according to running temps and oil pressure. Note that the specifications for both "W" and non-W grades are the same for both single and multi-grade oils. The difference is that multi-grade oils have to meet both cold and hot specifications.
The "W" grade (aka "winter grade") must meet certain lubrication specifications at cold temperatures. The lower the grade the colder the temperture is that the oil must be able to provide proper lubrication at. As a general rule of thumb use 10W for below freezing (32°F or 0°C) Use 5W for below zero (in fahrenheit or below 15°C). And use 0W for extreeme artic cold. You can use a "W" grade that's too low but try not to ever use one that's too high (or a single grade oil without a "W" specification) for cold weather.
All non-W grades must meet certain specifications at 210°F (100°C) and 300°F (150°C). For an example, seeing how you are a straight 30 kind of guy you may be pleased to know that any "dash" 30 oil (including 5W-30) must meet the same viscosity standards that straight 30 does at 210°F and 300°F. However, it's best to have your oil pressure checked against your RPM's to make sure you are using the right grade. A general rule of thumb is to try to make 10psi for every 1,000rpm. If your oil pressure is too low then use a high grade, if too high then use a lower grade. If you tend to run much warmer in the summer than in the winter you may need a lower non-W grade for the winter. But with a proper cooling system and thermostat might be just fine with the same non-W grade both winter and summer because running temps will not vary as much.
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If a water cooled engine cools its water with air, isn't it just an overcomplicated air cooled engine? |
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67 Sunroof
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Joined: February 22, 2014
Posts: 1836
Location: Salisbury, MD
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| Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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So without reading 175 pages of oil discussion....
What would be a good oil for me living in Maryland and driving the car from spring to fall? 10w30?
I've been told the valveoline racing oil has high zinc
What about rotella diesel?
Or just use an oil and add stp red?? In each oil change?
Okay okay I did read a little..haha |
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Wildthings
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Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50348
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:23 am Post subject: |
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| '67 Sunroof wrote: |
So without reading 175 pages of oil discussion....
What would be a good oil for me living in Maryland and driving the car from spring to fall? 10w30?
I've been told the valveoline racing oil has high zinc
What about rotella diesel?
Or just use an oil and add stp red?? In each oil change?
Okay okay I did read a little..haha |
I would suggest putting some effort into learning about additives before treating your crankcase like a kid's chemistry set.
As far as viscosity if you don't want to do much reading, why don't you check you owner's manual? or find out what your local shops recommend. |
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Juanito84
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Joined: March 17, 2012
Posts: 2436
Location: Colorado Mountains
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:29 am Post subject: |
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| '67 Sunroof wrote: |
So without reading 175 pages of oil discussion....
What would be a good oil for me living in Maryland and driving the car from spring to fall? 10w30?
I've been told the valveoline racing oil has high zinc
What about rotella diesel?
Or just use an oil and add stp red?? In each oil change?
Okay okay I did read a little..haha |
First of all, the zinc doesn't do much. It's mainly the sulfer in ZDDP that protects the cam and lifters.
Is your engine stock? Then you don't need, necessarilly, a ton of ZDDP. Is this a performance engine? Ok, then you do. Also if you have cheap lifters, then you may want more ZDDP.
How cold does it get in Maryland? If it gets below zero you probably want something with 5W on the bottle. From Spring to Fall either 10W-30 or 15W-40, depending on how hot your engine gets and how tight your bearings are. In other words, depending on your oil pressure.
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If a water cooled engine cools its water with air, isn't it just an overcomplicated air cooled engine? |
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hooker
Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2004
Posts: 261
Location: Bend, Oregon
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 9:34 am Post subject: Oil |
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10W-30 Valvoline VR-1 racing oil is what I use on a basically stock engine. Even if it gets down to freezing it still works for me.
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2007 NHRA Division 6 Finals Champion air cooled Rabbit P/U rear engine compact/import class, 13.32 sec 1/4 Woodburn, Oregon
Pauter Big Block VW 2610 cc turbo mid engine roadster 9.69 sec @ 147 mph 1/4 PIR Oregon
I spent most my money on women and VW race cars. The rest I wasted. |
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norcalmike
Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2005
Posts: 4784
Location: Marina, CA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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I just have to know. anyone ever run just plain jane whatever oil and had good luck? i mean store brand 30w or whatever works in their climate.
there are so many people piping up with all these high dollar special oils.
Any real case studies on the difference?
anyone built and engine and ran it 150k plus on walmart brand? |
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Quokka42
Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2010
Posts: 3117
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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| Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 2:06 am Post subject: |
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150k is tough for any VW - not going to happen with el cheapo oil. Since the reduction of ZDDP in regular oils you need to run an oil with high zinc throughout break in. After that any quality oil should be OK, but if Walmart oil is like our supermarket branded oils here you can expect a seriously shortened life.
So, no. No-one has ever done that because it is not possible.
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There has only ever been one man who was perfect, and they nailed Him to a cross. |
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