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Combining an old fiberglass body with a mid engine VW frame
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jmc14
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:34 pm    Post subject: Combining an old fiberglass body with a mid engine VW frame Reply with quote

I thought that some of you might be interested in a project that I'm starting.

This past summer I purchased a 1964 Crusader body. That body had been modified. The Crusader was developed by Jack Tatum. He was heavily involved in Formula V. He essentially built a 2 place Formula V frame and a light weight fiberglass, Can Am styled body for it. I purchased the body from a gentleman that had one of the original Crusaders. He vintage races it and purchase a second car because he wanted the frame. He is graciously letting me duplicate the frame.

In the mean time I came across a complete set of molds for one of my favorite looking cars of all time. The 1966 Abarth Sp 1000. I just purchased them and they are on there way to me. When I compared the overall size, tracks widths, and wheelbase I realized that the Abarth is almost exactly the same size as the Crusader. So, I'm going to build one on the mid engine VW chassis.

I've built a few kit cars and a few of my own from scratch. But, this will be my first experience with VW parts.

Here are some pictures of the Abarath. I think that it's stunningly beautiful.
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Dale M.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You realize of course the whole rear frame assembly will be hand built to accommodate suspension with mid engine application, and you may not have room to stuff engine behind passenger compartment and keep rear wheels in their proper location is chassis......

Looks like interesting project, will keep watching to see what you do...

Dale
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monomanx
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This sounds like a very cool undertaking. That body style is defintiely beautiful.

What windshield is supposed to go on the car?
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bim55
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a lik to a mid-engined, formula vee style chassis and car -www.bimelliott.com/GSpage.html
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jmc14
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found a company in Italy that I could get a windshield from. It is unique to the Abarth racing cars from the 60s. (as far as I know) It is extremely expensive. I won't be using it.

I will either fit a low polycarbonate wind deflector. Or make a fiberglass insert that would mate with the body and a Porsche 550/356 windshield. I've done that with a few builds. The Porsche glass is readily available and comes in 3 heights. Speedster, Convertible, and Coupe.

Here are a few pics of the chassis that I'm duplicating. It's a starting point. I will be modifying it to fit the body and my needs.
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GS guy
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Abarath bodywork is beautiful! Looks like a Manta Montage or Mirage windshield might be close? I believe these are still readily available, although expensive. Fitting a flatter windshield, IMO, will botch the lines of the car.
What is the Abarath wheelbase? Not sure where you'd fit a gas tank in that swoopy body!

The Deserter GS frame layout (from Bob's post) is a lot more pleasing to look at than the one in your pics. It wouldn't be too hard to modify and beef up the GS frame design for road use and it uses the same F-Vee rear suspension. For best road handling though, I'd go to a ZRS rear suspension layout.
Jeff
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Wetstuff
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prettier flow to the lines than my old Devin. Moving the engine forward probably helps. Similar windshield.

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..not my car/pic. (my 13" wheels allowed the car to sit better)


Jim
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jpfahrstar
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The old Fiat Abarth 1000 is a beautiful design. I'll be watching your progress and hope you can easily bring the existing body and that chassis design together. Good luck!
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HeidelbergJohn4.0
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed. I love the old 60's sports racers and can am cars. I'd absolutely love to have something like the Abarth, Porsche 909 Bergspyder or a lotus 23

I alway keep my eye out for a VSR (crusader) body.

Does anyone know the whereabouts of any molds for it?
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jmc14
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Crusader is pretty little car too. The original molds were lost and I believe that there are only 5 left. I have an oddball body that was modified back in the 60's.

But, I may have the opportunity to obtain a set of molds that were just pulled from an original car. I then would have the original frame and body.

Here is a picture of a Crusader.
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Here is a picture of the modified body that I have.
I am addicted to old fiberglass race cars from the 50's and 60's. I have built a number of different cars. Both from kits, and my own design. I do my cars for fun.
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HeidelbergJohn4.0
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks very much like the majority of the VSR pictures i've seen.

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jmc14
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The fiberglass car world was very small. Tatum hired Kellison to make his bodies. The Tatum is mid engine. Kellison did his version as rear engine. But, if you notice the car in the Kellison ad is a Crusader!

I have 3 Kellison bodies and a Devin too.
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GS guy
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a mid-engine Spyder chassis in the classifieds that might interest you. About as simple as it gets!
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1145235
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jmc14
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for the heads up on the chassis. I'll check it out.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wanted to thank you for the comments. I've decided to build a dedicated frame and use unequal A frame suspension. For power I'm going with a Hyabusa motorcycle engine set up for 210hp. I'm shooting for a total weight of under 1000lbs.

Since I won't be using VW parts I won't be posting my build on this forum. Thank you for having me. John
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jpfahrstar
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Will you be posting updates somewhere else? I'd still like to see what you end up doing.
JP
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Lo Cash John
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Same here. Sounds cool!!!
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jmc14
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for your interest. I have started a build thread on the Grassroots Motorsports Forum, in the "build" section.

Here is a picture of the Hyabusa/Mini Diff set up that I'm hoping will fit. I plan to run a pretty much stock, 200hp engine. I'm shooting for a finished weight of 1000lbs. That should get me 0-60 in the mid 3 second range. Fast enough for me. Smile

I would rotate the engine so that the valve cover is horizontal. A new oil pan would be required but this will lower the overall height and minimize the weight difference from the vehicles center line.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jmc14 wrote:
Thank you for your interest. I have started a build thread on the Grassroots Motorsports Forum, in the "build" section.

Here is a picture of the Hyabusa/Mini Diff set up that I'm hoping will fit. I plan to run a pretty much stock, 200hp engine. I'm shooting for a finished weight of 1000lbs. That should get me 0-60 in the mid 3 second range. Fast enough for me. Smile

I would rotate the engine so that the valve cover is horizontal. A new oil pan would be required but this will lower the overall height and minimize the weight difference from the vehicles center line.


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Are you planning to run that diff? Have you already purchased it?

bnc
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jmc14
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the engine will fit longitudinally I plan to use the Mini Diff. I have to wait for the Molds to arrive to pull some measurements to know for sure.

I have not purchased it yet. However, a guy that I know from car shows has emailed me and he has a Hyabusa with that Mini Diff sitting in his shop. He's offered it to me for trial fitting.

Do you have any info/experience with the Mini Diff?
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