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bradself Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2013 Posts: 167 Location: SF, CA
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Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:01 am Post subject: |
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Picking up glass tomorrow, close to home, decent price. The fellow is determined to save the gasket, of which I'm dubious, would much rather have chip/crack free glass than an old gasket. Wish him luck! |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:40 am Post subject: |
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Trying to remove the windshield with the gasket....sadly....is the fastest and easiest way to crack it. Its too hard with age.
The easiest way to remove the glass is to use a long bladed snap off style razor knife parallel to the glass.....just gliding over the glass.....to cut the entire outer portion of the gasket off. Then you just lift the glass out of the groove. Ray |
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Kharon8 Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2011 Posts: 375 Location: Espoo, Finland
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Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:31 am Post subject: |
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UltraSheen wrote: |
Regarding the glass issue, I requested a quote from http://www.classic-autoglas.com for a 412 main windshield. It was 345 EUR including VAT. As of right now, that's $460US, not including shipping. |
Expensive but somehow the expectations are that if you can buy new parts with something like just money, it's cheap as most parts are N/A, at ~any price.
But what do I know, I've a type 34 too ... it kind of adjusts the expectations or else.
Old windshield gasket is a PITA to install and/or probably leaks but if there aren't new ones for sale, what can you do ... not much but try.
NOS seals are (at least for me) a question mark: VW made very high quality seals originally (in Germany) and those last, properly stored, a very long time. Poor storage and they aren't much better than the one you already have. The problem: How do you know until you've the seal in hand?
Later ones (made in Brazil by VW) aren't up to same quality, but still better than many of the aftermarket seals (if there are any, I've really no idea in this case: experience from Ghias). _________________ Kharon -- '62 typ1, '63 typ14, '61 typ21, '65 typ34, '74 412, '75 typ26
FVWA.fi support group. |
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bb412 Samba Member
Joined: June 30, 2004 Posts: 300 Location: canada
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Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 5:52 am Post subject: 412 windshield |
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hi,,some years ago,, i use the type 2- 73 windchield seal german made,, for my 412,, it is appx. 3" more long but we can cut and use the good glue, for to joint the 2 section,,i have 4-5 pict in the ,,gallery ,,for that,, cheer,,bb412 |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:43 am Post subject: |
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Kharon8 wrote: |
UltraSheen wrote: |
Regarding the glass issue, I requested a quote from http://www.classic-autoglas.com for a 412 main windshield. It was 345 EUR including VAT. As of right now, that's $460US, not including shipping. |
Expensive but somehow the expectations are that if you can buy new parts with something like just money, it's cheap as most parts are N/A, at ~any price.
But what do I know, I've a type 34 too ... it kind of adjusts the expectations or else.
Old windshield gasket is a PITA to install and/or probably leaks but if there aren't new ones for sale, what can you do ... not much but try.
NOS seals are (at least for me) a question mark: VW made very high quality seals originally (in Germany) and those last, properly stored, a very long time. Poor storage and they aren't much better than the one you already have. The problem: How do you know until you've the seal in hand?
Later ones (made in Brazil by VW) aren't up to same quality, but still better than many of the aftermarket seals (if there are any, I've really no idea in this case: experience from Ghias). |
Late type 3 window seals are the same cross section as those for type 4. If you can find those....cut them up and use them.
Also you can use window seals from early 70's beetle. If you stop at a junkyard and grab some snippets of seals....and compare cross sections and outer flap sections....you can see that the glass seal groove is the same (the inner area of the seal toward the glass itself as well).....and the overall thickness regarding the body ledge are also adequate. The difference that is large...and its about 5-7mm.....is the outer/back areas that seals against the vertical wall of the angle/ledge in the body.
The beetle seal is too thin in cross section here......yet....the upper flap section that seals against the outer body of the car...is very similar in length to the type 3/4 seal.
So...what you need is a filler strip to wrap around the inside of the seal channel in the car to make up that distance and compress against the fingers/flaps at the back of the seal.
You can go to an industrial belting supply and buy narrow V-groove (serpentine style) belt material by the foot for cheap. Its just about the right thickness and very flexible and can be slit along the V--grooves to be the exact depth/width.
Apply it into the seal groove of the car with 3M weatherstrip adhesive and tape it in place until its dry. The V-groove section should face the glass seal. The groves should interact nicely with the flaps/fingers on the back of the glass seal. Run a bead of RTV around the outside under the outer flap
I did some mock ups on wrecks in the junkyards years ago. It should work well and allow the use of available quality seals.
In my pinion...the late bay bus windshield seal is not a viable option. I have them in my car for front and rear windscreen and one rear quarter window. The cross section is too thick to properly make the sharp corners and they will require grinding. They will eventually always leak. They are fine when nothing else is available.
When I get closer to installing bug rubber in my car in the spring I will post a how to. You would use front and rear windshield seals only and cut them to length. It would require two each to make the front and rear gaskets with seams at top and bottom.
Ray |
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bradself Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2013 Posts: 167 Location: SF, CA
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Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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Chris cut the gasket to get the glass out, good fellow! Luckily I have a NOS T4 seal. Ends up this was a semi-local car I was shopping but couldn't find a spot to tear it down. There's one more parts car a little farther out than this one was, still have the work space challenge though. |
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19super73 Hardcore Stock Nazi
Joined: October 18, 2007 Posts: 4351 Location: Cité Soleil
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bradself Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2013 Posts: 167 Location: SF, CA
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Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:52 am Post subject: |
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Just to know: T3 seals from ISPWest should work? I think I recall reading here they will work on the side glass, cut and glued of course. |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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bradself wrote: |
Just to know: T3 seals from ISPWest should work? I think I recall reading here they will work on the side glass, cut and glued of course. |
The seal profile is the same on all of the type 4 glass. The problems they would have on the side glass...are the same problems the late bus seal profile has.
The seals for all of these are molded. The original gaskets are specialty molded to fit the corners.
So....tight corners like you find on rear quarter glass like in the sedans....causes the bus seals and most probably the type 3 seals as well....to bunch up when you bend then tightly for a corner.
The two ways to get around this are to place what corners you do have molded into whatever seal you use.....in the tight corner and then work it around. This issue with this is that you may not have the glue joint where you would like it best.
The bus seal however....has a fatter outer seal section. It bunches up no matter what.
With the bus seal the "other" way MUST be used...and that is to grind/trim the seal in areas out of sight in the tight corners....and then seal with sealer.
Its why I noted that the best way that I have found no matter which way is to use windshield gaskets only. In that respect you at least have enough material to work around to put the glue joint in the best spot. I have not used the type 3 gaskets myself...but I have inspected the cross section and they are the closest to type 4 if not exact. Ray |
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bradself Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2013 Posts: 167 Location: SF, CA
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Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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Glass is in! Biggest struggle was the C trim. The NOS gasket was definitely different, it was marked 411 so perhaps it was an early one, didn't have as much meat on the in side, wrong profile for the headliner and A pillar clips. Supposed to rain tomorrow, so I shall see |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 6:28 am Post subject: |
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bradself wrote: |
Glass is in! Biggest struggle was the C trim. The NOS gasket was definitely different, it was marked 411 so perhaps it was an early one, didn't have as much meat on the in side, wrong profile for the headliner and A pillar clips. Supposed to rain tomorrow, so I shall see |
I aould run a bead of sealer around under the outer flap. Ray |
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