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Thomas Pedigo Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2010 Posts: 1052 Location: Nine Mile Falls/Sunset Bay,WA
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Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:21 am Post subject: Tunnel trans swap W/WW Okrasa expectations |
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Just ordered tunnel trans W/type2 nosecone and hockey stick for my`56. I am doing the Okrasa kit as well. I figured I'm gonna get approx. 12 more ponies in my 36h so it made sense to go fully synchronized with taller gears. What would be the ideal gear ratios considering ill now have about 48h and I want to drive 65-70 on I-5? I did the math comparing the original 4.43 in the stock split-case vs/ 4.12 gears in a stock tunnel. Its about a 7% difference which does not sound all that great. Would a 3.88 ratio be too tall? I also have considered how these changes affect the fan speed for cooling and that I do not want to "lug it" on the RPM`s. What do you guys think? _________________ Defying conventional wisdom since 1970 |
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Snort Samba Member
Joined: April 02, 2005 Posts: 1957 Location: Seattle, WA
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Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:04 am Post subject: |
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OK, I'll go first. In all honesty I am not an Okrasa person, and my only experience with changes in gear ratios has been reading the threads here and my own general VW driving experiences since the womb. But I encouraged this person to move his question from the Oval forum to Vintage Speed, hoping he would find a better audience.
VW changed their ring and pinion ratio to the 4.12 on the Bug in 1967 with the 1500 single port motor. You might be OK with this, but to go any further seems un-advisable. From what I've read, people are sticking with their early ring and pinion ratios with both supercharged and Okrasa 36hp motors, and they like the way they drive. On the flat, my stock 36hp can make 70mp on the speedometer, with a little more room to go, so you should be comfortable cruising at 65-70 with your Okrasa kit unless climbing steep grades with your 4.43.
I agree that you should be concerned about cooling fan speeds if you move to taller gearing, but you could at least move to a larger crank pulley, and perhaps go with the fresh air fan which has more blades if you go that route. |
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Thomas Pedigo Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2010 Posts: 1052 Location: Nine Mile Falls/Sunset Bay,WA
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Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:18 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for your input as this is my official "first build". I like the idea of the fresh air fan blowing more cooling air by the heads. As far as crank pulley goes,I have been eying those aftermarket "OT" pulleys. Ill do more research on these, but since I'm already here,is the diameter larger than stock which would spin the generator faster? Side note; I just ordered the WW "Abarth" repop....GULP!!! _________________ Defying conventional wisdom since 1970 |
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Erik G Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002 Posts: 13281 Location: Tejas!
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Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:29 am Post subject: |
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ouch.
Also, consider the 356 generator pulley. It is smaller than the vw one, therefore spinning the generator faster. It's also cheaper to do, and will not change your crankshaft assembly weight (not that it makes a huge differance on a 36'er) _________________ Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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Formcar 179 Samba Member
Joined: November 08, 2009 Posts: 17 Location: Rhode Island
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Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:39 am Post subject: |
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I am running a WW kit on my '56 Beetle, with the original split type transmission. It is 77X64 with an 8/1 compression, stock cam. I figure it is dishing out about 48 HP.
I was happy to get some mid range acceleration, rather than higher top end speed. The VW seems geared about right to me. I would not want to cruise it above 60 until I get a better crank in there. |
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Flavio Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2008 Posts: 414 Location: Madeira Island, Portugal
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Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:18 am Post subject: |
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Hi
Also full rebuilding a 36 engine with WW Okrasa Kit.
Regarding the OT pulley I have an iron one (i've been advised not to buy repro aluminium ones) that has 17 cm diameter. The stock 36 Hp has just more 5 mm, so, the OT will spin just a little bit slower. My 6 volts generator has the fan with more blades.
The gearbox is a stock ratio 1963 full synchro and for sure I'll be happy with it.
Learning with more experienced people, here in The Samba, The Rule seems to be that a taller gears gearbox only works good when the engine has more than 100 Hp, which is not our case with the Okrasa. It will "lug" !
The engine will be running maybe in a month or so. Then, I can be more helpfull. |
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Thomas Pedigo Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2010 Posts: 1052 Location: Nine Mile Falls/Sunset Bay,WA
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Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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OK...so I already received the aluminum OT pulley and decided to use the smaller diameter Porsche 95mm gen pulley with the fresh air fan. I also ordered a Berg deep sump and Mr Wob oil cooler. Its gonna be a while before the WW Okrasa build is complete and the`67 tunnel swap is installed but I feel as though this all seems to be a good combo for cooling and better hwy drivability. At 48hp,it should be comperable to the performance of the 1500cc that the`67 came with I would imagine.....just way cooler! _________________ Defying conventional wisdom since 1970 |
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Erik G Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002 Posts: 13281 Location: Tejas!
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pig-pen Samba Member
Joined: December 04, 2012 Posts: 570 Location: United Kingdom
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Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 3:24 am Post subject: |
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old thread from the dead....
I am expecting about 60hp from my 36hp build so I am toying with the idea of changing transmission... but not sure if it is worth it...
I have 3 options open to me right now...
stay split case (4.43) 3.60 / 1.94 / 1.22 / 0.82
use early 1500 (4.12) 3.80 / 2.06 / 1.26 / 0.89
use GT BEETLE (3.88 ) 3.80 / 2.06 / 1.26 / 0.93
As far as I can make out using this calc... with a 155 / 80 R15 tire
http://www.kabamus.com/garage/gears.html
that the top speed @ 4000 rpm is 81, 80, & 82 mph respectively.
so... just wondering what the point might be... other than the 1500 box available is recon and in great condition... is it worth swapping things about to go 1 mph slower??? Are those speeds above the max I will ever get with these combos?
also, overheating would not be nice. |
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60ragtop Bonneville Belt Bitch
Joined: March 13, 2006 Posts: 7800 Location: Big Wonderful WYO 82401
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Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 6:28 am Post subject: |
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I stayed with the stock trans in my 60 went I went with my stroked WW Okrasa kit. It likes to cruise at 75MPH all day long getting 30 MPG and top speeds of over 85 with GPS. no overheating worries either. _________________ Rick
Certified Mechanic by the State of Michigan in 1977
ASA certified in 1987
Certified Hunter Wheel Alignment Master Technician 1986
tasb wrote: |
I've restored a large number too, but I don't toot my horn quite as loud.
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sb001 wrote: |
maybe he just snapped cause his car sucked |
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pig-pen Samba Member
Joined: December 04, 2012 Posts: 570 Location: United Kingdom
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Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 7:34 am Post subject: |
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and a '60 was still split case right??? |
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60ragtop Bonneville Belt Bitch
Joined: March 13, 2006 Posts: 7800 Location: Big Wonderful WYO 82401
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Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:04 am Post subject: |
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yes, split case running 165 80 15 radial tires, 16K since I installed it. _________________ Rick
Certified Mechanic by the State of Michigan in 1977
ASA certified in 1987
Certified Hunter Wheel Alignment Master Technician 1986
tasb wrote: |
I've restored a large number too, but I don't toot my horn quite as loud.
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sb001 wrote: |
maybe he just snapped cause his car sucked |
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pig-pen Samba Member
Joined: December 04, 2012 Posts: 570 Location: United Kingdom
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Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:16 am Post subject: |
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then you have just made my mind up for me! split it stays. thank you very much. |
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gears Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2002 Posts: 4391 Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:03 am Post subject: |
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For whatever reason, I haven't seen the early tunnel trans R&P listed. 4.37 (8:35) seems a pretty decent choice. _________________ aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com |
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Kjell Roar Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2008 Posts: 1326 Location: Norway
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Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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One thing against split transmissions and hot engines, I have heard people telling they have broke it with a standard 1600DP. So dont know how much power they take. But it probably have to do with how you drive. A lot of torque from low rews is not good, neither many hp at high rews. _________________ I got a historic car, every scratch got a history...
My car, Aug. 4th, 1955 / an early 56: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=610438 |
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pig-pen Samba Member
Joined: December 04, 2012 Posts: 570 Location: United Kingdom
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Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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kjell... I think I will just grab the 1500 box on offer and wait and see... I can always put it in later if I need to. |
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Mr. Motorhead Mad Scientist
Joined: January 06, 2004 Posts: 717 Location: Practitioner of 36hp alchemy
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Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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gears wrote: |
For whatever reason, I haven't seen the early tunnel trans R&P listed. 4.37 (8:35) seems a pretty decent choice. |
That is what I run in my stone stock 36hp Bonneville car, works great. It will do 60-65 on the highway and does not bog on the smaller hills. _________________ 30 years experience in the sales of new and used auto parts!
36 horsepower parts for sale at http://www.aircooledresearch.com/
Or the new site at http://www.bugparts.com
Check out the Bonneville project:
http://aircooledresearch.com/docs/thebonnevilleproject.html#
"All limitations are self imposed."
Some Chinese guy |
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RichardinNZ Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2011 Posts: 280 Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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I'm about to fit a tunnel trans into my dual carb 36hp '58 bug. It will have a bus nosecone on it. Could someone tell me what front mount I should use?
Many thanks
Richard _________________ Richard
'58 Beetle; NZ Assembled
Dual Carb 36hp
My Car https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=1750253 |
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fcampbell356 Samba Member
Joined: December 15, 2007 Posts: 217 Location: Pensacola, Florida
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Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:30 am Post subject: Mount |
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Try to find a mount part # 211 301 265 or 211 301 265A. That is what I used on my 1959. Wolfsburg West list one. |
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RichardinNZ Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2011 Posts: 280 Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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