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'69 FI Squareback: The Continuing (Mis)Adventures
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you using 1 of those new electronic VRs? Just asking, as maybe something is bumping the top of it (like a rear seat belt), or you have a loose connection to it. I know I'm reaching, but I've seen weird stuff happen before. Rolling Eyes
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ataraxia
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bobnotch wrote:
Are you using 1 of those new electronic VRs? Just asking, as maybe something is bumping the top of it (like a rear seat belt), or you have a loose connection to it. I know I'm reaching, but I've seen weird stuff happen before. Rolling Eyes


Wouldn't that just fry a fuse or three?
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D/A/N
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm pretty sure there's only one shim between the pulley halves and the belt is only a few months old but I may as well see what's up there.

The VR is solid state. I tightened the ground connector checked that everything was tight a week or so ago. No harm in checking again though.
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ataraxia
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-TYPE-3-KARMANN-GHIA-SPE...mp;vxp=mtr

ISP West's eBay listing for the speedo cable is a GEMO in the event you're still looking.
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Tram
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

D/A/N wrote:
I'm pretty sure there's only one shim between the pulley halves and the belt is only a few months old but I may as well see what's up there.

The VR is solid state. I tightened the ground connector checked that everything was tight a week or so ago. No harm in checking again though.


I frankly think you are heading for a generator fail. If it were me, I'd replace the brushes and clean the commutator with a piece of 400 grit sandpaper on a popsicle stick and see if that solves things. It's sure cheap enough, and you don't even have to remove the gen from the engine..
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tram wrote:
D/A/N wrote:
I'm pretty sure there's only one shim between the pulley halves and the belt is only a few months old but I may as well see what's up there.

The VR is solid state. I tightened the ground connector checked that everything was tight a week or so ago. No harm in checking again though.


I frankly think you are heading for a generator fail. If it were me, I'd replace the brushes and clean the commutator with a piece of 400 grit sandpaper on a popsicle stick and see if that solves things. It's sure cheap enough, and you don't even have to remove the gen from the engine..


And, use a pick to clean the slots in the commutator. Don't dig too hard, just clean it out. After I had my Square a couple of months, I had to do the sandpaper-and-pick job, along with new brushes.

The brushes on the car were practically new, but they were some kind of really soft compound that gunked up the commutator. A new set of Bosch brushes were the answer -- haven't had any problems since.
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D/A/N
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a little update here.....I changed the brushes and polished up the commutator last Sunday. It turned out that the top brush (which I initially thought was fine) was significantly more worn than the bottom one. It had also worn at an angle so I don't know if all of the brush was making contact. Why that would have caused an intermittent problem or why pressing down on the top brush didn't ever make the light go away is beyond me though.

Since Sunday, the light hasn't come on except for when it's supposed to and there was even a day when I was running the headlights, wipers, heater blower, rear defroster, and radio all at once. Until the light comes on again, I'm going to say this issue is "fixed".
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KTPhil Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

D/A/N wrote:
It had also worn at an angle so I don't know if all of the brush was making contact. Why that would have caused an intermittent problem or why pressing down on the top brush didn't ever make the light go away is beyond me though.


Check that the brush springs are doing their job. Loose or bent springs would explain oddly worn brushes and poor charging.
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D/A/N
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KTPhil wrote:
D/A/N wrote:
It had also worn at an angle so I don't know if all of the brush was making contact. Why that would have caused an intermittent problem or why pressing down on the top brush didn't ever make the light go away is beyond me though.


Check that the brush springs are doing their job. Loose or bent springs would explain oddly worn brushes and poor charging.


They weren't bent, but they definitely weren't especially firm/tense. They seemed to hold the brushes in place but didn't seem to exert much downward pressure on them. Is there anything to do short of trying to dig up some new or NOS brush springs?
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

D/A/N wrote:
KTPhil wrote:
D/A/N wrote:
It had also worn at an angle so I don't know if all of the brush was making contact. Why that would have caused an intermittent problem or why pressing down on the top brush didn't ever make the light go away is beyond me though.


Check that the brush springs are doing their job. Loose or bent springs would explain oddly worn brushes and poor charging.


They weren't bent, but they definitely weren't especially firm/tense. They seemed to hold the brushes in place but didn't seem to exert much downward pressure on them. Is there anything to do short of trying to dig up some new or NOS brush springs?


Two things to keep in mind, and might explain part of your issue. Brushes for our generators are not readily found, and most places will sell you bug versions in their place. The problem with the bug brushes is; that the small square notch in the top of the brush is carved with a slope going in the wrong direction, and 2nd that the brushes are just a tad to wide to fit the type 3 brush holder (they need a little sanding to slide in the holders).
Contact Jim Adney for correct brushes, as he's about the only person I know that has the correct type 3 brushes in stock.
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71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
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Tram wrote:
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D/A/N
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bobnotch wrote:
D/A/N wrote:
KTPhil wrote:
D/A/N wrote:
It had also worn at an angle so I don't know if all of the brush was making contact. Why that would have caused an intermittent problem or why pressing down on the top brush didn't ever make the light go away is beyond me though.


Check that the brush springs are doing their job. Loose or bent springs would explain oddly worn brushes and poor charging.


They weren't bent, but they definitely weren't especially firm/tense. They seemed to hold the brushes in place but didn't seem to exert much downward pressure on them. Is there anything to do short of trying to dig up some new or NOS brush springs?


Two things to keep in mind, and might explain part of your issue. Brushes for our generators are not readily found, and most places will sell you bug versions in their place. The problem with the bug brushes is; that the small square notch in the top of the brush is carved with a slope going in the wrong direction, and 2nd that the brushes are just a tad to wide to fit the type 3 brush holder (they need a little sanding to slide in the holders).
Contact Jim Adney for correct brushes, as he's about the only person I know that has the correct type 3 brushes in stock.


Wow, what a drag that even the brushes aren't universal across all models! I never realized that. I guess that like most parts vendors we buy from I just figured that any 12V VW generator would use the same parts. The brushes I removed, we put in 2 years ago so I have no idea what side the notch was on b/c I didn't pay attention when taking them out. But when I went to install the brushes last Sunday, I couldn't help but notice that it would have been better if the notches were on the opposite side from what they were on and I even tried to install them with the notch on the side I would have preferred. These were some NAPA Echlin ones that were either recommended way earlier on this thread or elsewhere on this forum. I guess I'll be talking to Mr. Adney. As to width, though, there was no issue with these new brushes. They slid into place just fine, no finessing required.
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jadney
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

D/A/N wrote:
Wow, what a drag that even the brushes aren't universal across all models! I never realized that. I guess that like most parts vendors we buy from I just figured that any 12V VW generator would use the same parts.

All the brushes are the same width, but some are longer than others. The "ramp" on top goes in different directions because the rotation is different. I'm currently out of the Type 3 brushes. I need to find some more. Bosch is the only source I know of; everyone else just sells you Type 1 brushes.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jadney wrote:
D/A/N wrote:
Wow, what a drag that even the brushes aren't universal across all models! I never realized that. I guess that like most parts vendors we buy from I just figured that any 12V VW generator would use the same parts.

All the brushes are the same width, but some are longer than others. The "ramp" on top goes in different directions because the rotation is different. I'm currently out of the Type 3 brushes. I need to find some more. Bosch is the only source I know of; everyone else just sells you Type 1 brushes.


Ok, so I guess we'll live with the brushes we have for the time being. The next thing to dig into is sudden horrendous gas mileage. I know it's time for the so-called "winter gas", but we've suddenly taken a dive into the teens and 20's over the last four tanks (never really happened with our Type 1).....teens in mostly local with highway driving and very low 20's with 90% highway driving with max speeds of about 70. Time to check out the charging system a bit further, look for vac leaks, and all that other fun stuff. Mad

I should add that we have a recent valve adjustment and fine dwell and timing.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

D/A/N wrote:

Ok, so I guess we'll live with the brushes we have for the time being. The next thing to dig into is sudden horrendous gas mileage. I know it's time for the so-called "winter gas", but we've suddenly taken a dive into the teens and 20's over the last four tanks (never really happened with our Type 1).....teens in mostly local with highway driving and very low 20's with 90% highway driving with max speeds of about 70. Time to check out the charging system a bit further, look for vac leaks, and all that other fun stuff. Mad

I should add that we have a recent valve adjustment and fine dwell and timing.


The mileage you report doesn't sound that unusual to me, for cold weather. I typically never get above 24 unless I keep it below 70 on the highway. What had you been getting before this?

Check your tire pressure, as it will go down when winter hits. 20 in front, 30 in back works, unless you load up the car.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jadney wrote:
D/A/N wrote:

Ok, so I guess we'll live with the brushes we have for the time being. The next thing to dig into is sudden horrendous gas mileage. I know it's time for the so-called "winter gas", but we've suddenly taken a dive into the teens and 20's over the last four tanks (never really happened with our Type 1).....teens in mostly local with highway driving and very low 20's with 90% highway driving with max speeds of about 70. Time to check out the charging system a bit further, look for vac leaks, and all that other fun stuff. Mad

I should add that we have a recent valve adjustment and fine dwell and timing.


The mileage you report doesn't sound that unusual to me, for cold weather. I typically never get above 24 unless I keep it below 70 on the highway. What had you been getting before this?

Check your tire pressure, as it will go down when winter hits. 20 in front, 30 in back works, unless you load up the car.


We would regularly get in the mid to upper 20's in warm weather on the highway and in the lower 20's to upper teens in city/mixed driving. I've always been jealous of those who say they always get 25-30 no matter what. In any case, I drive this thing to work every day and don't relish having to fill it up twice a week, even if gas is suddenly cheaper.

We have one bummy tire that loses about 5 psi per week when we don't regularly fill it up, but over the last month or so, we've been vigilant about filling it, and it hasn't gotten below 25 psi.

Also, the idle has been "thumpier" than normal lately.....often the driver's or passenger's windows will vibrate or the passenger seat will vibrate if no one's in it. It's always been kind of "thumpy" (can feel it in the seat) but the amount of things buzzing or vibrating in response to the thump have increased. This is what makes me think to go poking around for vac leaks, etc.
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jadney wrote:

All the brushes are the same width, but some are longer than others. The "ramp" on top goes in different directions because the rotation is different. I'm currently out of the Type 3 brushes. I need to find some more. Bosch is the only source I know of; everyone else just sells you Type 1 brushes.


Bummer. You were about the only person I knew that would probably have them in stock. I knew Russ had some too, but his inventory probably went to Nebraska. Rolling Eyes
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bobnotch wrote:
jadney wrote:

All the brushes are the same width, but some are longer than others. The "ramp" on top goes in different directions because the rotation is different. I'm currently out of the Type 3 brushes. I need to find some more. Bosch is the only source I know of; everyone else just sells you Type 1 brushes.


Bummer. You were about the only person I knew that would probably have them in stock. I knew Russ had some too, but his inventory probably went to Nebraska. Rolling Eyes


I don't have a brush in hand to help fully visualize whether this would work, but couldn't we file a notch in the top on the correct side to at least get a slightly better fit under the spring?
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

D/A/N wrote:

I don't have a brush in hand to help fully visualize whether this would work, but couldn't we file a notch in the top on the correct side to at least get a slightly better fit under the spring?

Yes, you can modify brushes that have the wrong slope. I've done that and it works, but you lose a bit of wear life because you're basically shortening the brush.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Had a classic misadventure this morning.....I'd been meaning to change the spark plugs and had a bit of extra time today. I figured, what could go wrong? Turns out a lot but I'll get to the worst of it.

The #3 plug didn't come out very easily. Looks like some of the threads are all mangled and I'm reluctant to put a new plug in since it seems like there's probably something wrong in the head. Before the engine rebuild, we stripped both holes in the 1/2 head and now we've moved to the other side. I don't get why. Never stripped a hole on our Type 1 in many 10's of thousands of miles and many spark plug changes.

What does a person do when their plug comes out looking like this? That's not anti-seize, it's metal. Is it a problem in the head? Here are a few views all around the plug

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


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KTPhil Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't put those plugs back in without removing all metal from the threads! Use some anti-seize on the threads before inserting. And be very careful with the first couple of threads as you insert by hand. An old mechanics trick is to use a piece of straight rubber hose on the back of the plug so you can turn it by hand with good feel for the first few threads. Do NOT over-torque thinking you are compensating for worn threads; you'll probably just strip it more.

I would put new plugs in. That way, assuming they seal, I will get maximum miles before having to R&R them, minimizing the chances of totally stripping the heads. I would very carefully check the plug threads for any burrs or sharps, perhaps even (very) lightly sanding them to knock off the sharps, lessening the chances of the new plug cross threading and cutting the head threads.

Check after a hundred miles with the "redneck stethoscope" for any sounds of gas leaks at the plugs.


Last edited by KTPhil on Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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