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Montehms 67 Prairie Square
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eyetzr Premium Member
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice progress. I love seeing guys rip into this rust stuff & not give up. Clatter has been some great inspiration for some of us & there are other builds that follow that as well. Check with Bookooz for some of your rotten parts. He is always ripping into these cars & saving the good bits. Keep up the great work.
Good to see the next generation being interested in helping as well. Well done
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I think he meant "rare", as in "not well-done"
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MonT3 wrote:

I have two sets of donors. One was just the inner skins and the other the whole A pillars. I was looking for a second opinion on whether to replace that pitted upper of just fill those places with some weld material.

I would guess the car sat for a long while and was exposed to the elements. Maybe the doo was left cracked or the seals failed after dry-rotting before being saved the first time around. I have no other sections to get after so I'm happy to these are the last sections to deal with before I start cleaning up the work.


How about just cutting thebad sections out, and replacing just those areas? It might be easier to go this route. Either that, or contact Joel (Boo-Koo-Z), or maybe even Mike Fisher, and see if they have what you need. This will work too, if either one have some decent pieces you can use.
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
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MonT3
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got some grinding taken care of today. Pulled my pieces out for my pillar replacement. Plan A on the left and Plan B on the right...
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

I've got the areas were these guys go in cleaned up as well. I have a little work to do on them before they go tin. Mainly straightening them out and do some test fitting....
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

The heating tubes that attach to the bellows are a little concerning. I recall the under side of them got a lot of rust. Didn't seem to get good coverage from the factory. I'm thinking of masking off a section that these would be welded onto, then primer, raptor then weld those pieces on. Cover it while doing a follow-up coating. Anyone try that??

Supersuk?

Clatter, I know you may not be that far along but have you thought about coverage on the underside of those things? You got that area primed up but that else is planned if I may ask? I may hold out for a while on these while I throw that idea around.
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Clatter
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Re: Heater Tubes

My plan with those is to first get them fitted and ground, so they go on and off easily, but fit snug.

The mounting tab that hangs off the side of mine has a hole drilled in it.
The rest of that hole i made, when drilling into the body to get it off, is welded shut and ground.
That way, when it gets put in place, there is a nice hole, with flat metal under it, just ripe for a plug-weld.

The end of the pipe, where it attaches to the car, was seam-welded a bit, but only in small sections from the factory.
Not spot- welded, but not stitched, kind ot tacked in a few spots, kinda.
It fits tightly, and was pretty easily removed IIRC, so just enough to hold it in place well, not seal it up.

The tube, and the hidden area underneath it, will get epoxy prime and paint.
Where the welding will be done, at the end of the tube, and mounting tab, will get the paint sanded away, and weld-thru primer applied.
Then the tube will get welded into place...

Later, when the car is getting sanded as part of bodywork and paint, it will get scuffed, epoxied and painted along with the rest of the body.
Until then, it will have some welding spatter and weld-thru showing in spots, but all of the hidden areas will have primer and paint.

This is the same basic procedure that's getting done to the rest of the car;
When you have something apart, and can hit it with epoxy and paint, best to do so!
To prevent it from messing up anything you need to weld, clean off the exact areas to be effected by the welding, and hit them with weld-thru.
the whole thing can be sanded and primed and bodyworked and painted all pretty later when the fab is all done and you are doing that part.


This is all Just like this latest installmant of mine with the front clip.

Here is a guy who does the same thing on his 365 - inspiring build - Watching him really hit home how this should be done when there are hidden spots:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=579964&start=0

Hope this helps.
Weld-thru is your friend.
Just DON"T put it on thick at all or your welds won't stick!
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monte, I don't know if plan "A" or plan "B" is the way to go. My usual luck involves both. Wink

As for the duct pieces, I'd kinda do like Steve mentioned, but I'd use some tape to keep the bed liner/rhino liner stuff off the duct edge where you're going to want to put the stitch welds (about 3/8ths inch long each, using 3 of them). Then do the weld thru primer on those spots, along with where they attach. You can even add a coat of the bed liner stuff under where the duct is going to sit, as that'll help keep it from rusting. Steve and I use epoxy primer, and paint in those spots, but the bed liner stuff should work too. The main idea here, is to seal the bare metal, and help prevent it from rusting there again.
I hope this helps.
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71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Today was spent grinding some welds down as well as playing around with the notion or implanting my sunroof. I have some rocker skin welds to clean up as well as a few on the cowl. I haven't messed with putting the A pillar sections in as I wanted to take some time to clean the edges of the skins up. The C pillar was ground down and looks nice(sorry, no pic of that until the weekend comes around). Here's the rear apron again.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

The two extra holes are gone...cool!
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I'm also thinking of putting a shortened hump under the clock to house my toggle switches for my reverse, Red bumper light and fog lights. Still need to cut and shave it into position.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

And here's my sunroof I've been messing with. Unfortunately, I don't think a full skin swap will work....
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Samples of the rusted areas on the roof...
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Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

The pieces were in fairly good shape with the corners having minor cracks.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Has anyone done a partial roof replacement? The underside compartment that holds the roof piece when retracted isn't connected and held in place by partial spot welds as well as the brackets you see in the pics. I solid round foam seal was tucked all the way around the backside of this compartment to close it in. Also, there's a 3 1/2in wide support piece under the roof section at the rear opening of the roof. I'm thinking of cutting next to that, cutting the brackets, pealing the gutters away, drill spot welds and remove. Reverse order in my shell. I know...easier said than done.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Will get a body guy to get a closer look at the roof.
Got a 4 day break coming up starting on Friday so I plan on making some headway on the shell.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After sleeping on the idea of implanting a sunroof into my shell, I'm not going there. The pieces will be up in the ads later this week.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FWIW,

Having searched high and low for a sunroof car,
And now dealing with the inevitable rust and headaches they cause,
I'm so over it.

When I was driving the car around, an open sunroof just zorches your dome.
Yeah, you can wear a hat, but that's kind of dumb.
It has gotten to where I never open the sunroof on any of our cars that have them.

Totally over-rated, barely worth having if your car has one already.
Definitely not worth sectioning in.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clatter wrote:
FWIW,

Having searched high and low for a sunroof car,
And now dealing with the inevitable rust and headaches they cause,
I'm so over it.

When I was driving the car around, an open sunroof just zorches your dome.
Yeah, you can wear a hat, but that's kind of dumb.
It has gotten to where I never open the sunroof on any of our cars that have them.

Totally over-rated, barely worth having if your car has one already.
Definitely not worth sectioning in.


Add to this the inherent complexity of the Type 3 sunroof with several parts that are expensive and as strong as Dollar Tree trash bags.

It sounds like a cool idea until you have to find parts or it breaks at the worst possible time (when it starts to downpour)...good plan to let this one go. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clatter wrote:
FWIW,

Having searched high and low for a sunroof car,
And now dealing with the inevitable rust and headaches they cause,
I'm so over it.

When I was driving the car around, an open sunroof just zorches your dome.
Yeah, you can wear a hat, but that's kind of dumb.
It has gotten to where I never open the sunroof on any of our cars that have them.

Totally over-rated, barely worth having if your car has one already.
Definitely not worth sectioning in.


I have to agree with most of this, and I even warned Monte of some of the pitfalls in a PM exchange. I even told him where the rust trys to happen on those roofs, and cars from my own personal experience (my Notch has a factory sunroof). Add in that he'd be trying to add it to a non-sunroof car, and you could be opening up a whole new can of worms. I say that, as he'd have to figure out where the drains will now dump out, and little things like that.
My first suggestion to Monte, was to strip it down and send it to his blasting guy, so he could find out how solid it is, and then go from there. It's his car, and he can do whatever he wants with it, but he's going to have to think long and hard before making that decision on installing it. It'll be a ton of work to do, so that will need to be factored in.
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71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bobnotch wrote:
Clatter wrote:
FWIW,

Having searched high and low for a sunroof car,
And now dealing with the inevitable rust and headaches they cause,
I'm so over it.

When I was driving the car around, an open sunroof just zorches your dome.
Yeah, you can wear a hat, but that's kind of dumb.
It has gotten to where I never open the sunroof on any of our cars that have them.

Totally over-rated, barely worth having if your car has one already.
Definitely not worth sectioning in.


I have to agree with most of this, and I even warned Monte of some of the pitfalls in a PM exchange. I even told him where the rust trys to happen on those roofs, and cars from my own personal experience (my Notch has a factory sunroof). Add in that he'd be trying to add it to a non-sunroof car, and you could be opening up a whole new can of worms. I say that, as he'd have to figure out where the drains will now dump out, and little things like that.
My first suggestion to Monte, was to strip it down and send it to his blasting guy, so he could find out how solid it is, and then go from there. It's his car, and he can do whatever he wants with it, but he's going to have to think long and hard before making that decision on installing it. It'll be a ton of work to do, so that will need to be factored in.


I agree with you. Taking apart the roof pieces and having a hard look at the underside of it and the thought of running the drains. Re-reading Bobnotch's PM comments in setting them up really made me take pause on this and rethink going forward with this. I appreciate everyone's comments. Sunroof really isn't needed. Besides, I couldn't sport my swamp cooler with a sunroof. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Little bit of an update. This slowed to a near halt as I had some professional development course work to get thru. Now that it's over, it's back to getting the shell completed. The weather up here has sucked the winds have been howling.
I took some time to make the lower portion of the lower corner piece. I had one that was pitted so I used it as a template to create new ones made from thicker gauge metal like the pieces I welded in to support the bumper brackets. They haven't been put in place as the bumper mounting brackets needed to be put in place. Grabbed the bumper brackets and spent some time getting them aligned and leveled. Got alot of mild cleaning of the welds and the remaining will get a coat of seam sealer.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Next up was working the A pillars. I need to find a small bit to cut down some grinds in closed-in areas. After cleaning these areas up, Small ends of the dash piece will get placed in.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

I have one piece to work in on the passenger side.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

More pics to come of the pillar clean-up to follow.
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Last edited by MonT3 on Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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Clatter
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Way to get back in there...

I'm waiting on a certain part to show up.
Maybe it will help me find some inspiration.

Seeing you get somewhere certainly helps!
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice work Monte. Cool For the "A" posts, I'd spot tack weld them (weld a tack, then move on, and repeat, then tack on tack them (like as if you were welding on the fenders). This should keep the build up to a minimum, and cut down on the grinding. If you do this, you might want to either up the heat, or slow the wire speed (or possibly both).
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71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got the pillars in and cleaned up a bit. Have some minor spots to fill in...
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Slow moving this weekend but got my armrest pieces in as well as round mount for the back seat. Got the back seat slide pieces in as well. Have more cleaning to do as well...
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Still need to place the rear vent tubes in. I'm thinking on waiting for the epoxy primer to get sprayed then I can scuff the area where the little tabs hold these pieces in and weld the tabs in after the primers in place. At least the underside can get some protection ...
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Taking a lunch break then back at it. More to follow. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Weld it all up and don't grind welds that are covered up or don't show! Twisted Evil
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MonT3 wrote:
Got the pillars in and cleaned up a bit. Have some minor spots to fill in...

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Slow moving this weekend but got my armrest pieces in as well as round mount for the back seat. Got the back seat slide pieces in as well. Have more cleaning to do as well...
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Still need to place the rear vent tubes in. I'm thinking on waiting for the epoxy primer to get sprayed then I can scuff the area where the little tabs hold these pieces in and weld the tabs in after the primers in place. At least the underside can get some protection ...
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Taking a lunch break then back at it. More to follow. Very Happy


You're definitely gaining on it. Cool
I'd fill that hole on the "A" post for sure, as you don't want water entering the car from it. Wink

I'd grind the tops down for sure, as that's partly what allows the rear seat to slide on at that point where it meets the load floor.
But you can also knock down the high spots too. Just don't get too carried away with the grinder, or you'll be doing more welding to fix it. Rolling Eyes
Great job. Very Happy
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71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
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Tram wrote:
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the comments guys!

Started early with knocking some of the high-points down in the back seat area. Moved onto the A Pillar and have three holes I need to close up. There in the worst part too - down in the low part of the channel . I'm taking a break from it to clean up other areas before going back to it....
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Took a break from and stepped outside to see this... Dammit! It's back. Sad So I rolled the pan back inside and under the shell.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

This corner is a pain to deal with. There are two holes I found while cleaning out the material I welded in there...
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

This is the lower driver side I want to clean up. So I'll add a little more material and work on it...
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

I spent a lot of time air-hosing the shell and thinking I had gotten a good chink. Twice I have I moved blasting material out after grinding, So I'll spend more time working the air hose again...
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Hope to have some more updates to report today but with the pan under the shell, will be slowed a bit but it's all good.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MonT3 wrote:
Thanks for the comments guys!

Started early with knocking some of the high-points down in the back seat area. Moved onto the A Pillar and have three holes I need to close up. There in the worst part too - down in the low part of the channel . I'm taking a break from it to clean up other areas before going back to it....
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Took a break from and stepped outside to see this... Dammit! It's back. Sad So I rolled the pan back inside and under the shell.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

This corner is a pain to deal with. There are two holes I found while cleaning out the material I welded in there...
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

This is the lower driver side I want to clean up. So I'll add a little more material and work on it...
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

I spent a lot of time air-hosing the shell and thinking I had gotten a good chink. Twice I have I moved blasting material out after grinding, So I'll spend more time working the air hose again...
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Hope to have some more updates to report today but with the pan under the shell, will be slowed a bit but it's all good.


You might want to look for some 3/16ths or 1/4 inch wide "cut off" wheels on a die grinder to help grind down those high spots. I know I keep a few around just for tight areas like those. Then you can blend the ground areas with a 2 inch sanding disc on a die grinder. It'll make quick clean up of hard to reach places like you're dealing with.

As for the sand, try running a vacuum at the other end of where you're trying to clean out. It does help. Or you can do a Clatter, and drop it a few times. Wink But, I don't think you want to do that. You might try some duct tape (or duct tape and cardboard) to help get a vacuum in areas that are giving you trouble too. I've found that you have to get creative with the sand clean up, in order to get it out. Rolling Eyes I hope this helps.

P.S. We're supposed to get some of that white stuff here Wednesday night and Thursday. Evil or Very Mad
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71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
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Tram wrote:
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*Edited for spelling*
Played around with these pieces here. I couldn't find the other rectangle side but found another, same side so I think I'll motivate it (with a hammer) to become the side I need. Since one of the rear corners was from a 66, the rear seatbelt bracket wasn't in. I had removed this from my rotted corner so marked the area where this piece goes in, drilled 6 holes to weld this to the body and should be good on that piece. I need to study the other two panels as to what direction they face.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Still mulling adding in a dash piece to accommodate a few rocker switches. I'd like to have the ends math to the light switch side but the piece I was mocking up was fitting in an un-appealing way. This piece is still being fitted so I have a little trimming to do with the dash in place so the bottom dash cover portion of the instrument clears and of course some time spend staring at it (while having one, maybe two, perhaps three beers) to make the decision to move forward or scrap the idea for something else.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


All I can say is up here we are about to get more snow. The wind is howling pretty darn hard. Tomorrow early AM is gonna suck.
_________________
MonT3
67 Squareback
64 Squareback
63 Squareback
Engine rebuild
Trailer rebuild


Last edited by MonT3 on Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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