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Joeys1969
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Joined: April 13, 2010
Posts: 637
Location: Florida
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 Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:16 pm Post subject: Beetle cut off, won't start anymore. |
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Hey guys, long time no post.
First off 69 beetle 1600 dual port, weber progressive, electronic ignition(pertronix)
Got a quick question for you guys. I was driving my 69 beetle for the first time in a few months and it started bogging down really bad, then just cut off. I didn't drive it for a few months but I started it at least once a week. The car won't start anymore so something went bad.
I checked to make sure I'm getting fuel, and took the carb off and cleaned the jets. I also replaced the plugs.
I'm not getting spark though. (No arching off of the spark plugs) so I'm thinking my electronic ignition is bad.
Has this happened to anyone else? What else can I check?
Joey
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Danwvw
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Joined: July 31, 2012
Posts: 8892
Location: Oregon Coast
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| Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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Sounds like the Pertronix has failed but sometimes it's just a loose connection in the distributor or to the coil. Pertronix I's are notorious for failure. The Pertronics II would be a better choice. What happens with the Pertronix I is the emf from the coil can kill them or you may have a coil going bad which will short out momentarily causing the Pertronix to fail.
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Joeys1969
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Joined: April 13, 2010
Posts: 637
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Danwvw wrote: |
| Sounds like the Pertronix has failed but sometimes it's just a loose connection in the distributor or to the coil. Pertronix I's are notorious for failure. The Pertronics II would be a better choice. What happens with the Pertronix I is the emf from the coil can kill them or you may have a coil going bad which will short out momentarily causing the Pertronix to fail. |
Thanks for the response, this is what I was leaning towards. I did swap out the flamethrower coil for a Bosch I hasd sitting around with no luck.
I'm thinking it might have failed caused to water damage from washing the car before I put it away for a few months.
Joey
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Danwvw
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Location: Oregon Coast
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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It's wise to carry a spare distributor in any VW especially on a trip but with the Pertronix I would want my spare distributor to have points! You probably can't run the "Flamethrower" coil with points though!
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Harleyelf
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Joined: April 23, 2009
Posts: 1572
Location: Appleton, WI
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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| You can for a little while, but it will fry the points because the dwell will be all wrong with a 2 ohm coil if the points are gapped correctly for a Bosch 4 ohm coil. I carry a 009 distributor and a blue coil just in case the Pertronix fails. |
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Dougy Dee
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Joined: August 21, 2004
Posts: 1668
Location: Niagara Region, CANADA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Unscrew the Pertronix from the advance plate. Clean up the corrosion/nastiness. Replace it and it will start. |
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Joeys1969
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Joined: April 13, 2010
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Location: Florida
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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Update;
So I got the new electronic ignition put in the car, took it for a test drive and the same thing happens. Got to the end of the street and it just cut off. Check to make sure I had power to the coil which I did, but had none coming out of the negative side. Timing is set to 12 degrees advanced.
Put my other dizzy on with points and it fired right up. But I didn't take it for a ride. I went back and fourth thinking I had the wiring wrong but I couldn't get it to start again with the electronic ignition back on.
What should I look for?
Joey
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Last edited by Joeys1969 on Fri Nov 28, 2014 4:25 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Joeys1969
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Location: Florida
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| Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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Also it seems like my battery is dying, but when I get it back to the garage I always put the battery charger back on it when trying to crank it over.
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Dougy Dee
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| Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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Pertronix needs almost a full 12 volts, (11.6 or so comes to mind), to work. Much less and no go.
Fully charge your battery and have a shop or flaps put a load test on it. |
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Joeys1969
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Location: Florida
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| Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Dougy Dee wrote: |
Pertronix needs almost a full 12 volts, (11.6 or so comes to mind), to work. Much less and no go.
Fully charge your battery and have a shop or flaps put a load test on it. |
I was hoping it could be something as simple as this. But what about when I have the battery charger on when cranking the car over? Wouldn't the charger make up the extra amperage needed?
Thanks
Joey
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Hnoroian
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Joined: October 27, 2013
Posts: 535
Location: Bakersfield
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| Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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My ignition switch went out, check it out too. Not the tumbler in the cylinder but the wires in the back, my spring broke...
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Aussiebug
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Joined: June 03, 2002
Posts: 2162
Location: Adelaide Australia
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| Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 1:37 am Post subject: |
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| Joeys1969 wrote: |
I was hoping it could be something as simple as this. But what about when I have the battery charger on when cranking the car over? Wouldn't the charger make up the extra amperage needed?
Thanks
Joey |
Joey,
The VW starter uses about 200 amps for a second or so to get the engine spinning (initial surge current) then about 70 amps to keep it spinning.
How many amps does your charger put out, 4amps, 6amps, something larger?
It's not going to help much when starting, unless it s big-amp charger - like those used in commercial workshops.
If you don't already have a cheap digital multimeter - get one. It's a very useful tool, and very easy to use for checking voltages.
With the charger connected to the battery, you should get a voltage of 13.5 or greater (some chargers used a stepped voltage - starting low and working up, and some are "dumb" chargers that just put out a set voltage or around 14-14.5v), so you should at least see well over 12.5v.
Once charged, a 12v battery in good condition actually gives around 12.6v, so if you have had the charger on overnight and the battery voltage is still less than 12v (charger disconnected), then the battery could be in trouble, and that will certainly make any problems with the Pertronix worse.
One problem with all car batteries is that when you pull out huge amps (starter spinning the engine) the battery voltage always drops during the cranking, so if the battery is already getting tired and down on voltage before you turn the key, there's a good chance the Pertronix is trying to run on less volts than it wants, so the engine will crank but wont start.
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Rob and Dave's aircooled VW pages
Repairs and maintenance for the home mechanic
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Joeys1969
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Location: Florida
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| Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 11:13 am Post subject: |
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Thank you for the timely response! I do have a charger that I can do a 2amp trickle, 35amp quick charge, and a 200amp jump.
I do have a multi meter and I will check the battery and report back!
Joey
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